Fabricating Aluminum Intake Manifold, need help - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12-30-2012, 12:55 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Moab, Utah
Posts: 53
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Fabricating Aluminum Intake Manifold, need help

Hello all and Happy Holidays.

I have a stroked Volvo B20 engine that I am building and will be turbocharging and I am looking into fabbing a new intake manifold out of aluminum, yes I do weld aluminum.

My question is about tuned port, pressure waves, runner size to name a few. A cursory search found this article, http://mysite.verizon.net/vzezeqah/s...ionsystems.pdf

Volvo does have a Fuel Injection manifold that I can use, but space will probably be an issue, hence the idea of creating a new intake manifold to make more room for the turbo.

This article points to pressure waves and equations for, as far as I can tell a NA engine. Do the same principles hold true for a Forced Induction?

Any help or direction is appreciated.

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 12-30-2012, 01:29 PM
vinniekq2's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: BC,Canada
Age: 59
Posts: 11,638
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 693
Thanked 1,340 Times in 1,243 Posts
do you think it will make much difference in the end?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 12-30-2012, 02:02 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Moab, Utah
Posts: 53
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thank you for the replies.

Because the intake and the exhaust are on the same side I have been wondering about throttle body and plenum on the other side of the engine with the runners going over the top of the valve cover and then doing a 180° to the intake valve. I am a little leary about the 180° turn.

Here is the stock intake look. With a turbo in there it will be tight.

This is from another forum, but the basic design of what I am thinking about.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 12-30-2012, 02:55 PM
techinspector1's Avatar
Member
 
Last wiki edit: DynoSim combinations Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Zephyrhills, Florida, USA
Age: 75
Posts: 15,456
Wiki Edits: 326

Thanks: 1,546
Thanked 2,077 Times in 1,606 Posts
In my opinion, tuned port, pressure waves and runner size can be tossed out the window when you go from naturally-aspirated to turbocharger-aspirated. All you will need is a plan to deliver the proper air/fuel ratio to the motor and a way to keep the charge cool. In your case, using FI simplifies keeping the A/F ratio in line. I like your "over the top" runners, same as the intake system on my old '91 Ford 300 six cylinder motor, but I think if I were doing it, I would fabricate an intercooler to fit in that space also.

I understand that you have little room on the driver's side for the turbo unit, but weigh making room there by doing a little surgery on the existing parts against running exhaust tubing to the other side of the motor to run the turbine. I have made the comment many times that with a cutting torch, a Sawzall, a MIG and a good hand grinder, you can make anything fit anything.

I think if I were doing your project, I'd mount everything on the driver's side by doing some surgery, then I might mount an air-air intercooler down low in front of the car.

I'm certainly not the forced induction guru on this board, just presenting a few thoughts......good luck.....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 12-30-2012, 03:27 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Moab, Utah
Posts: 53
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1 View Post
In my opinion, tuned port, pressure waves and runner size can be tossed out the window when you go from naturally-aspirated to turbocharger-aspirated. All you will need is a plan to deliver the proper air/fuel ratio to the motor and a way to keep the charge cool. In your case, using FI simplifies keeping the A/F ratio in line. I like your "over the top" runners, same as the intake system on my old '91 Ford 300 six cylinder motor, but I think if I were doing it, I would fabricate an intercooler to fit in that space also.
That is what I needed to hear, I did not think that the pressure waves, length, etc, etc held that much importance when going to forced induction.

My CR is going to be right around 9:1, with a turbo I know that is higher than recommended. Can I place knock sensors on the engine to prevent detonation? If so, where on a loud and noisy 4 cylinder would be the best place?

Thanks
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 12-30-2012, 04:12 PM
techinspector1's Avatar
Member
 
Last wiki edit: DynoSim combinations Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Zephyrhills, Florida, USA
Age: 75
Posts: 15,456
Wiki Edits: 326

Thanks: 1,546
Thanked 2,077 Times in 1,606 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryankalel View Post
That is what I needed to hear, I did not think that the pressure waves, length, etc, etc held that much importance when going to forced induction.

My CR is going to be right around 9:1, with a turbo I know that is higher than recommended. Can I place knock sensors on the engine to prevent detonation? If so, where on a loud and noisy 4 cylinder would be the best place?

Thanks
With all things forced induction, I tend to lean on the information from Blower Drive Service. They've been in business long enough to have done most everything there is to do with pressurizing air. Their chart shows that with 9.0:1 static compression ratio, you can run up to 6 lbs. of boost on pump gas.
Blower Drive Service: We Deliver Horse Power! - Blower Drive Systems, Blower Kits, Blower Cams, Custom Carb Service
Now, this is with hot air. I'm thinkin' that with an intercooler, you could use more boost without detonation.

I have little experience with knock sensors, being from the old school and reading spark plugs to get the tune right. I'm sure that most of the high-tech world has passed me by though. A little surfing on the web found this offering that may interest you.....
J&S Electronics SafeGuard Indivdual Cylinder Knock Control

As far as reading plugs, buy a 10X lighted exam tool, chop the ignition and coast to a stop after a power run and examine the plugs.
How to Read Spark Plugs
Reading Spark Plugs
Spark plug reading
Reading Spark Plugs Correctly
Wallace Racing - Spark Plug Reading

B&B's Spark Plug Magnifiers
Spark Plug Reading Light - Twin Cam® Cam Change Kits - Cam Chest and Oil Pump Gasket Sets - Gaskets and Gasket Kits - All Products
Comp Cams 5326 Pro 10x Spark Plug Viewer
Nitrous Express » Next Generation Nitrous Oxide Systems » Spark Plug Magnifying Glass w/Light
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 12-30-2012, 06:09 PM
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: General Motors transmissions Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: near Yellowstone park
Posts: 5,122
Wiki Edits: 27

Thanks: 35
Thanked 487 Times in 430 Posts
long time ago.

50 years ago my engineering college project was designing a tuned injected manifold, as I remember tuned length was calculated using temperature , density and cam and rpm for max horspower. to get the numbers right. But I needed more money to finish college and sold my roadster. but I did get an A on the design project.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2012, 11:46 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Moab, Utah
Posts: 53
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by hcompton View Post
I would copy the stock intake out of larger 1/4 thick wall alumiunum tubing.
Do you mean copy the inside diameter of the stock intake manifold? The original engine size is 2.0, I am stroking it to a 2.3. Will this make a difference in tubing size? I was thinking that 1/8th of an inch for the intake runners would be thick enough?? No?

I am also planning on reinforcing the runners by welding some 1/8th inch between the runners, like webbing. The flange I agree needs to be at least 3/8 inch.

Inside the intake/plenum should I run air horns or just smooth it down with the same idea of the air horn?

Thanks again for the input!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 01-03-2013, 07:21 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 7
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
IMO I would keep inside diameter the same and go fairly thin on the tubing especially with gusseting; no sense in adding weight. The tubing gauge from the early 90's Geo Prizm/Toyota Corrolla intake should be fine. You may want to look up some photos of these manifolds as it could be an alternative to the over the top (which is a GREAT design and will yield good low end torque prior to boost).

The engine will be used for low end accelleration/cruise, not just boost and a good normally aspirated design should be adhered to for optimization over the entire range. Log style exhaust manifolds should be avoided as well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 01-05-2013, 02:02 PM
Project89's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: utah
Posts: 1,333
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 16
Thanked 137 Times in 104 Posts
what cam/s do u have in the engine and what size turbo charger
whats the engines redline and were do u want it to make the most power

on my 2.8L turbocharged v6 engine i picked up 28hp and 35ftlbs at the rear tires with a manifold i made for it

i shortened the runners 3 inches and and increased plenum volume almost 2.5 times over stock

the plenum volume increase helped it pick up power uptop but made off boost,low rpm driving responce a tad sluggish
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 01-05-2013, 02:12 PM
Project89's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: utah
Posts: 1,333
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 16
Thanked 137 Times in 104 Posts
here one o fthe ones i built . i reused the stock lower and middle section but did a whole new top

heres the cutup stocker

and what i made










urs will be much simpler to make over what i made for my car

for the plenum u want a flat bootom were the runners meet it, and u want all entrys bellmouthed , then use a half round plenum , u can tune runner lenght a lil bit to fine tune the intake

what i would do is make the plenum bolt to the runners , so u can make 2-3 diff sets of diff lenght runners and see what works best
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Can one weld on an aluminum intake manifold? Elevinpointsixtoone Engine 12 07-29-2012 11:06 PM
Fabricating intake manifold. gemini86 Engine 25 10-02-2009 01:10 PM
fabricating intake cruiser22 Engine 2 11-11-2005 08:56 PM
aluminum manifold, aluminum heads, bolt torque william27103 Engine 8 11-07-2004 05:46 AM
62 corvette aluminum intake manifold custom Engine 1 10-22-2003 08:49 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.