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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 05-30-2013, 12:12 PM
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and fink i have been looking for some used comp magnums or harland sharps or crane golds, something cheap that will bolt up without adding guide plates, sinse i built this engine two years ago. wont use low end used parts. might as well buy new junk if i was to do that. im a broke gun salesman and smith in new york. you know how broke i can be as of late...especially in New York thanx to... also im going first thing to talk to my favorite machinist about grinding the rods for oil spray in the morning. i will gladly hand over 15 horsepower to flood my cam with oil. my engine sees idle for hours on end. i have done the lock systems in the onieda river/erie canal system many times and love to do it. and guys how do you feel about my cam choice? if it sounds half as good as that reed cam i had itll turn heads. that reed cam was a symphony of 8 to my ears and many could not believe it was a pump gas small block. once she hit 2900 rpm the engine just revved right up and response was incredible at mid to top end.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 05-30-2013, 12:53 PM
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I live in Cicero; and one of my first jobs was at Brewerton Boatyard on the west end of Oneida Lake. The owner Wayne is one of the best boat mechanics around. I know not what you're looking for, but worthwhile info if your "lower unit" needs service one day (the one in the boat...sheesh).

2 good area machinists: Fingerlakes Machine in canadaigua (Jim Zagg); Port City in Oswego. There are others in Rochester, and I think Bloss in Syracuse is still around, but I don't have a lot of experience with them. If you get the run around, let me know and I'll see what I can do to help a brother out.
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Old 05-30-2013, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s-10again! View Post
and fink i have been looking for some used comp magnums or harland sharps or crane golds, something cheap that will bolt up without adding guide plates, sinse i built this engine two years ago. wont use low end used parts. might as well buy new junk if i was to do that. im a broke gun salesman and smith in new york. you know how broke i can be as of late...especially in New York thanx to... also im going first thing to talk to my favorite machinist about grinding the rods for oil spray in the morning. i will gladly hand over 15 horsepower to flood my cam with oil. my engine sees idle for hours on end. i have done the lock systems in the onieda river/erie canal system many times and love to do it. and guys how do you feel about my cam choice? if it sounds half as good as that reed cam i had itll turn heads. that reed cam was a symphony of 8 to my ears and many could not believe it was a pump gas small block. once she hit 2900 rpm the engine just revved right up and response was incredible at mid to top end.
Spraying more oil off the rods is not a good idea. It was not removed by EPA edict; it like so many old engine technologies was not to be found necessary like Ford's use of a double rod bearing on the flathead among a bazillion possible examples of obsolete technology that was never effective. There's plenty of oil flying around the crankcase without adding spray. Spray is sent to the bottom side of pistons for cooling of the crown, an effective but messy way to minimize detonation and was on the SBC a left over from the days of insufficient fuel octane. Without other design and material changes to the pistons and rings this will flood the oil rings to where excess oil consumption becomes a real possibility/probability. Besides as I've already pointed out direct oiling through the cam (example Ford did this on the old Indy engines), oiling by way of a groove in the lifter, or for solids oiling through a hole in the lifter foot, or in the case of several high level race engines tunneling the cam so it ran inside a lake of oil. In the end none of these has proven to offer a solution.

The shortest line from where you're at is to get a nitrided cam from Comp, or have anyone else’s cam case cooled with liquid nitrogen. Either of these processes puts a hard wear layer on the cam which is several wear factors above running simple cast iron lobes against what are often cast iron tappet feet. This whole thing is dealing with several deficiencies of the Chevrolet camshaft which is its core is too small for the loads so it bends with spring loads and whips from lobe and timing set induced oscillations, the lifter diameter is marginally small causing the lifter edges to dig into the lobe; lack of adequate thrust damping placing all that load into the lobes and lifters.

All of these things; common materials in high loading, insufficient bending and twist strength, inadequate lifter diameter, lack of independent thrust negation all conspire against lobe and lifter survival and push any method of lubrication right against the limit in the best of oils and chemistry.

Bogie
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Old 05-30-2013, 04:35 PM
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I would:

Replace the cam with a genuine Isky cam.
use the Good genuine GM hyd lifters with the steel foot.
Break in using stock GM SBC valve springs @ max installed height 1.75"+ minimum spring pressure
Keep the max rpm below 4500 rpm max if/when using the stock springs, for the run in.
when it is all broke in replace the springs with your Hi perf springs and set installed spring height to spec.
Keep the engine idle speed up 1000+rpm, for the first few hours of in water use.

use the Isky Rev lube Moly paste on the cam lobes.

use Moly Slip. E oil supplement in the oil.
Molyslip Canada Inc. :: Molybdenum Lubricants, Performance Lubricants, Copaslip Anti-Seize, EP2 Grease, Wear Reducing Lubricants, Oil Additive

After the initial cam run in 1/2 can is fine in the oil.

You do not need a cam button or a cam thrust plate, on a SBC hyd flat tappet cam.
Inspect the distributor gear.

ISKY Racing Cams - Do It Right. Race with the Legend. Camshafts, Connecting Rods, Valve Springs, Lifters

Two good Isky Marine I/O cams
# 201264/271-12 264/270-MEGA HYDRAULIC

# 201271/281-12 270/280 MEGA HYDRAULIC


A roller rocker arm is pretty much a waste of time on this motor.

Inspect the lifter bores. may need a slight hone or bore edge de-burr to remove scratches or burrs from old lifter removal.
be sure the new lifters are able to rotate in the bore.

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 05-30-2013 at 04:49 PM.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 05-30-2013, 04:53 PM
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Do not dump the cam break in oil with the Moly Slip E ,,in it.
Leave it in so it can do its thing. (prevent premature cam lobe wear)
Just change the oil filter and go.

You don;t need a special oil... just the Moly Slip E in your oil.
It has lots of Moly and Zinc in it for anti wear and anti scuff.

Just mix it up with your engine oil, by hand and then dump it all in.
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Old 05-31-2013, 07:27 AM
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so autogear your a local around here huh? Bloss machine is still in buisiness. hes done me right many times. ive used Bloss machine for years but jimmy hart is going to be my new go to guy. he works for most of the shops within 80 miles of him then works in his own shop 3 days a week. hes right up the street from Bloss machine. i know Wayne and Keith Carol. my dad went to school with them and i have done buisiness there at bolth their establishments as well. as for my cam its going in the engine today i got the cam break in additive and also some 2000 grit emery. probably take me a while to get the engine back in the boat. post back after break in.
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Old 05-31-2013, 07:34 AM
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on yeah my oil i chose was royal purple 20-50
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Old 06-03-2013, 11:34 AM
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ok i got the gm lifters WITH the foot. i noticed on my first build that some do not have the foot. i got a set with the foot from bloss machine with the reed cam and some didint fit well so i bought a few more of the same brand lifters from my local advanced auto, they came withought the foot didnt know what the differance is but the lifter that went bad and took the cam was a sealed power lifter with NO foot. just a solid blank lifter body with the foot included in the body. as well the failed lifter bore was a bit tight along with another bore that wasnt failed. i polished up the lifter reall good and down she went. ive reinstalled the engine and broken in the cam with vengeance and pissed off couple neighbors but its ready for a floggin out on the water. exhaust note is more smooth and stroky at idle but has an aggressive rasp under low rpm torque. it doesnt have that marine rumpity rump idle sound like the last one did though. if its got a rasp at top end ill be happy. boats dont sound good with that stock stroke'y sound of a 350 imo. gotta have that rasp.
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Old 06-03-2013, 12:02 PM
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Hart has a great rep; never used him though. Mark Hartman did a lot of work for my dad, along with Chuck Bogan when dad was crewing on Super Mods at Oswego back in the 70s and 80s (Jimmy Shampine and Danny Soule (and whatever Danny's dads name was - I have a picture of me in Dannys 'BlueBird' car when I was maybe 4 or 5. They strapped headphones on my head, fired the motor and pushed me around the yard LOL).
Wayne and Helen are nice folks, I dont know much about Keith other than he has a gorgeous marina and had a nice Shaguar.

Glad you got it straightened out, I know there were a lot of counterfeit Morel lifters out there for awhile (still?). I even had a customer that got a set of phony ARP bolts. Ugh.
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Old 06-03-2013, 12:41 PM
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more than likley we have crossed paths maybe shook hands in our travels. thanks for your replies autogear. yeah Jimmy Harts brother does the fabled Hart Barrels here in Lafayette NY. that our US. Marines sniper remington 40X's use as well as long range competition air gauged barrels. he is world renound and his brother Jimmy is Every bit as skilled. runs in the family.
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Old 06-03-2013, 12:44 PM
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Soule was a big name then i remember the times. in fact i remember the bluebird car catch a tire and going *** over teakettle in the first turn one night, foam all over the track. havnt been to oswego raceway in 20 years. Most of the Shampine's are doing dirt racing now too. have been for a while.

Last edited by s-10again!; 06-03-2013 at 12:50 PM.
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