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-   -   Fiberglass & bondo for skim coating? (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/fiberglass-bondo-skim-coating-229457.html)

Mad Tiki Customs 02-11-2013 05:51 PM

Fiberglass & bondo for skim coating?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 72chevyelcamino (Post 2240)
i have been using fiberglass on big rust areas after i cover area with sheet metal and pop rivets does metal under fibglass rust?

You cant use fiberglass to patch metal. I cant tell you how many cars ive restored that the fiberglass has de-laminated from the metal. There two different substrates that expand and contract at different rates also causing body filler to eventually crack.
My advise would be to have a competent metal man do the patch for you, Please dont destroy a car by using pop rivets. thats the kind of workmanship that everyone always shakes their head at and laughs. Its not a way to repair a car that you actually like.

69 widetrack 02-12-2013 10:26 AM

I'm glad that you started this thread....I'm a little tired of questions like "which is better to repair rust holes, long strand fiberglass or short strand fiberglass". The answer for anyone reading this thread is NONE OF THE ABOVE. I used to try and answer these threads and persuade the OP to not use either and repair it properly by replacing the metal. Too many cars like Mustangs, Camaro's and all the other cars that could have been brought back, are only cosmetically repaired, look good from 50 feet away and 6 months to 2 years later they need to be redone properly but it cost to much because now you need to redo the previous work.

I can't impress on the people that are doing this type of repair that your damaging the car more than bringing it back to life...do it properly, (if it takes you an extra year or 2 to save up the funds that's OK) or don't do it at all.

Ray

NEW INTERIORS 02-12-2013 11:05 AM

I agree..;)
Do it right the first time around.. You will be much happier in the end... It takes just as long to weld in new metal as it would to use the filler.. I hate to see people use fiberglass on metal..Big nono..:nono:

MARTINSR 02-12-2013 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Tiki Customs (Post 1645251)
You cant use fiberglass to patch metal. I cant tell you how many cars ive restored that the fiberglass has de-laminated from the metal. There two different substrates that expand and contract at different rates also causing body filler to eventually crack.
My advise would be to have a competent metal man do the patch for you, Please dont destroy a car by using pop rivets. thats the kind of workmanship that everyone always shakes their head at and laughs. Its not a way to repair a car that you actually like.


I can see both sides to this coin. There are all different levels of expectations first off, what are your expectations? What is your budget? What are your skills? What tools do you own?

I believe in doing things the "best" way possible, but then there is also the "bestest" way :D That is doing it the best way you can when the expectations, budget, skills and tools afford you.

There are times when you can "properly" do something without doing it the best way. I know that sounds stupid because if you aren't cutting out and welding in new metal how could it be done "properly" but think about it as doing it the "Bestest" way.

If you sand blast and epoxy prime a floor that is full of small rust holes and then cover it with fiberglass cloth filling all those holes and giving it some strength, it isn't the "best" way but it could be (this is all opinion of course) the "Bestest" way to correct the rusted floor if this meets your expectations than all is good right? In visiting forums over the years we have seen people with all kinds of different expectations. So how can I give them what they need to meet their expectations has been a question of myself.

To answer that question I have tried a few of these methods of repair like testing the 2K aerosols and things like that. So on my Rambler I had a swiss cheese floor board on the drivers side. The interior was all in there so cutting the floor board out and welding in a new one would have taken quite a bit of work. I decided to do it the "bestest" way as a little test. I spot blasted the floor using my "Speedyblast" with the little sand catcher so the sand doesn't go all over. I then brushed epoxy primer on it and then laid fiberglass cloth over it putting a number of layers and then brushed epoxy over that. That was two years ago and driving it every day, I just pulled up the carpet to check the brake fluid the other day and it looks as good as the day I did it.

This is a far cry from pop riveting a patch panel on a quarter panel which is just plain wrong anyway you look at it. But there is a place for these fiberglass or reinforced filler products is all I am saying.


Brian

NEW INTERIORS 02-12-2013 12:07 PM

Thanks for the lesson.. But if you put fiberglass on metal it can very easily be pulled right off the metal... Sorry YOU can't make me blieve that.. Under your carpet yes it will stay until it pop's off..... But with what they have out there today,, It's to easy to do it right,, Not bestest...:nono:

If your going to tell someone how to do it... Tell them the right way...You don't have the tool's to do it right,, Then buy them or bring it to someone that does.. My God !!!:drunk:

NEW INTERIORS 02-12-2013 12:15 PM

If someone HAS to half a** it.. I would use short strand body filler INSTEAD OF fiberglass and cloth ANYDAY ... ;)

MARTINSR 02-12-2013 12:16 PM

I think if I said C cabs were awesome you would argue with me. :rolleyes:

Brian

NEW INTERIORS 02-12-2013 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MARTINSR (Post 1645540)
I think if I said C cabs were awesome you would argue with me. :rolleyes:

Brian

For someone that likes to do a lot of reading and writing,,, Post the right way instead of something like you just posted.. :nono:

I can careless what you think about a c-cab...

painted jester 02-12-2013 12:22 PM

Brian: :D

That was a great post! LOL I'll add this: There are 2 different resins for doing glass work "Finnish resin and laminating resin"

Laminating resin (Evercoat # 100560, 100561) is used for initial coats on wood & metals or for multiple applications with fiberglass cloth or mat. This resin is air-inhibited which means it will cure to a tacky finish and does not require sanding between coats. This is desirable in laminating because the layers adhere to each other better. This product should not be used as a final coat unless measures are taken to seal out the air during the curing process. It is also excellent for overhead and vertical repairs, Because its sticky and will hold the next layer of cloth in place!!!

Most parts stores only sell Finnish coat resins, and lamination is not as good!!! Its called Finnish coat because that's exactly what it is, a Finnish coat to go over the laminated layers!


I've seen so many people using resins that have never heard of laminating resin!!!!!! and then complain because their repairs don't last!!!!

I like that "Bestest" Brian:thumbup: LOL!!

Jester

MARTINSR 02-12-2013 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by painted jester (Post 1645544)
Brian: :D

That was a great post! LOL I'll add this: There are 2 different resins for doing glass work "Finnish resin and laminating resin"

Laminating resin (Evercoat # 100560, 100561) is used for initial coats on wood & metals or for multiple applications with fiberglass cloth or mat. This resin is air-inhibited which means it will cure to a tacky finish and does not require sanding between coats. This is desirable in laminating because the layers adhere to each other better. This product should not be used as a final coat unless measures are taken to seal out the air during the curing process. It is also excellent for overhead and vertical repairs, Because its sticky and will hold the next layer of cloth in place!!!

Most parts stores only sell Finnish coat resins, and lamination is not as good!!! Its called Finnish coat because that's exactly what it is, a Finnish coat to go over the laminated layers!


I've seen so many people using resins that have never heard of laminating resin!!!!!! and then complain because their repairs don't last!!!!

I like that "Bestest" Brian:thumbup: LOL!!

Jester


That is a very good point, I was brought up calling it "A" coat and "B" coat. From what I remember the "B" coat has wax in it that rises to the top.

Brian

painted jester 02-12-2013 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MARTINSR (Post 1645553)
That is a very good point, I was brought up calling it "A" coat and "B" coat. From what I remember the "B" coat has wax in it that rises to the top.

Brian

Yep, The laminating resin is non wax!! A and B coat I learned it that way at greenfield village garage 45 years ago! I also laminate Kevlar and carbon fiber! Compound bows were laminated layers and were very strong! If you used Finnish coat to laminate the layers and pulled back the bow you would take your head off! LOL:D

Jester:thumbup:

NEW INTERIORS 02-12-2013 02:24 PM

One has wax and one doesn't... That is the only difference between the two... One doesn't stick more then the other... I only use the one that doesn't have the wax....;)

There is two types of resin..epoxy and polyester..

painted jester 02-12-2013 02:26 PM

This may help some of you beginners out there reading this thread !

Jester:thumbup:


After using the laminating resin (Evercoat # 100560, 100561) Use one of these final coats Depending on the perticulars of the project!


Waxing resins: Also called Finnish coat.
Marine and Fiberglass Resin (Evercoat 100552, 100553, 100554, 100517, 100518, 100519, 105498, 105499, 105501 and 105502) are non air-inhibited or waxed resins. They are for the final coat. This resin cures with a hard, non-tacky surface. When the catalyzed resin is applied as a final coat to the laminate coats of resin, the wax rises to the top, sealing off the air and allows the resin to cure to a hard finish, which can then be sanded, painted or gel-coated.
NOTE: Cannot be used with aluminum, redwood and/or close-grained woods like oak or cedar. For redwood, cedar, oak or other oily or close grained woods, Evercoat Everfix Epoxy (100642, 100643) will provide the best adhesion.
Do not use with Styrofoam.

69 widetrack 02-12-2013 02:49 PM

OK Brian, here is my take on doing or recommending this type of repair. If your working on a car that has no value today or in the future and your only concerned about it lasting for a few months...go ahead, knock yourself out, plug the rust with fiberglass. If your working on a classic, say for example a 69 Mustang and the roof is rotted out...would you recommend filling the rust holes or repairing the rusted areas properly by replacing the rust with metal or maybe, depending on the amount of rust, the whole roof. In my opinion it's not a matter of "next bestest", it's a matter of bringing a classic back to it's original condition. If the owner doesn't have the knowledge or the equipment then I would suggest one of 2 options, either get the knowledge and the equipment or hire a person that can do the job properly. Too many a good, restorable vehicle, and we've all seen them, have been butchered to the point where a proper restoration isn't feasible anymore.

In my youth I made too many stupid mistakes with cars that today would be valuable, be damned if I'm going to pass on information to people remotely suggesting that fiberglass out of a can is an acceptable and respectable way to repair rust or restore a classic.

Just my thoughts.

Ray

painted jester 02-12-2013 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by painted jester (Post 1645578)
This may help some of you beginners out there reading this thread !

Jester:thumbup:


After using the laminating resin (Evercoat # 100560, 100561) Use one of these final coats Depending on the particulars of the project!


Waxing resins: Also called Finnish coat.
Marine and Fiberglass Resin (Evercoat 100552, 100553, 100554, 100517, 100518, 100519, 105498, 105499, 105501 and 105502) are non air-inhibited or waxed resins. They are for the final coat. This resin cures with a hard, non-tacky surface. When the catalyzed resin is applied as a final coat to the laminate coats of resin, the wax rises to the top, sealing off the air and allows the resin to cure to a hard finish, which can then be sanded, painted or gel-coated.
NOTE: Cannot be used with aluminum, redwood and/or close-grained woods like oak or cedar. For redwood, cedar, oak or other oily or close grained woods, Evercoat Everfix Epoxy (100642, 100643) will provide the best adhesion.
Do not use with Styrofoam.

Forgot to add this: If using Epoxy resin it also has a downside in that an amine blush, which feels "waxy" on the cured epoxy, the waxy blush must be washed away with warm water before successive layers can be laminated! if you don't do this your layers will eventually peal like a loaf of sliced bread!!

Jester


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