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Old 01-16-2010, 10:07 AM
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Fiberglass...HELP

I am planning to install a fiberglass cowl scoop to my metal hood. It is a "bolt on" scoop. The question is how to go about filleting or smoothing in the harshly square edges of the scoop to the hood. Being a bolt on scoop there is no border to allow for the smooth transition into the hood. Not sure if there is a filler material I can use that will work with both materials, steel and 'glass, and not crack over time and heat cycles???...Or...maybe you have a better idea.
Thanx for your time and effort.

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Old 01-16-2010, 11:09 AM
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We put one on my Chevy Luv in 1995.. all we did was.. sand the spot of the hood where it will be with 36 grit.. Then put some bondo with the kitty hair's in it on the hood.. Then set the scoop into place, You can put a couple screw's to hold it down until it cure's.. Once it is cured, Then you can take your screw's out.. And finish up with some rage bondo to smooth it into the hood.. This way work's very well.. The one we did in 1995 still look's the way we did it.. Still can't tell we added it..not one crack 14 year later...It was on this truck..

Make sure to sand the bottom of the scoop too..
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Old 01-16-2010, 11:44 AM
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the best thing i could find is dynaglass its a bondo type substance with fiberglass mixed in
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Old 01-16-2010, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jshort1991
dynaglass

That's what I was talking about..
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Old 01-16-2010, 06:47 PM
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Thanx for the input guys.
I have some of that kitty hair stuff. I think the stuff I have is like a fiberglass resin base though, not bondo. It is called Evercoat filler. I will look up the Dynaglass stuff and check it out.
I was wonder'n if maybe some of that cross bonding resin would be better though. Lord Fusor has some stuff for 'glass on metal. Not sure how it sands though. Being a bolt on scoop there is no need to use screws. Just wish there were some previsions for blending it to the hood, not just thin straight edges.
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Old 01-16-2010, 11:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dodgeboy3406
Thanx for the input guys.
I have some of that kitty hair stuff. I think the stuff I have is like a fiberglass resin base though, not bondo. It is called Evercoat filler. I will look up the Dynaglass stuff and check it out.
I was wonder'n if maybe some of that cross bonding resin would be better though. Lord Fusor has some stuff for 'glass on metal. Not sure how it sands though. Being a bolt on scoop there is no need to use screws. Just wish there were some previsions for blending it to the hood, not just thin straight edges.
Evercoat kitty hair is pretty strong, I use it to remake rocker panels that are smashed.

For your application; I would DA the hood where the scoop is going with 40 grit, and DA the bottom of the scoop where it touches the hood with 40 to even out the casting (they usually aren't molded perfectly) then I would use PL375 http://www.stickwithpl.com/Products....6-095729b36661 to bond the scoop to the hood, it's a construction adhesive that you can find at most hardware stores, Home Depot ect. ect.

It's made for holding materials that expand and contract, and works well.
Just bolt the scoop down and let it set for 24 hours under pressure, just try not to squeeze it all out when bolting the scoop down.

Then I would use a DA with 40 grit on grinder mode to feather the edges of the scoop to blend into the hood more, give it a coat of duraglass(no hair fiberglass) and finish off with a lightweight body filler, prime, and paint.

Voila.

I personally wouldn't use the kitty hair, it's a pain to sand flat(especially the long hair), since you already would have all the bond you'll need with the PL375 you shouldn't need it.
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Old 01-17-2010, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cutterbond
Evercoat kitty hair is pretty strong, I use it to remake rocker panels that are smashed.

For your application; I would DA the hood where the scoop is going with 40 grit, and DA the bottom of the scoop where it touches the hood with 40 to even out the casting (they usually aren't molded perfectly) then I would use PL375 http://www.stickwithpl.com/Products....6-095729b36661 to bond the scoop to the hood, it's a construction adhesive that you can find at most hardware stores, Home Depot ect. ect.

It's made for holding materials that expand and contract, and works well.
Just bolt the scoop down and let it set for 24 hours under pressure, just try not to squeeze it all out when bolting the scoop down.

Then I would use a DA with 40 grit on grinder mode to feather the edges of the scoop to blend into the hood more, give it a coat of duraglass(no hair fiberglass) and finish off with a lightweight body filler, prime, and paint.

Voila.

I personally wouldn't use the kitty hair, it's a pain to sand flat(especially the long hair), since you already would have all the bond you'll need with the PL375 you shouldn't need it.
How does the PL375 sand??? My dad was in construction, we used "panel adhesive" to glue a ton of different things. Think'n this is kinda the same stuff ??? From what I remember it never cured up real "hard". like you could'nt sand it cleanly. Hope'n this stuff is different.
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Old 01-17-2010, 10:05 AM
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You won't have to sand the kitty hair the way I said to do it.. The kitty hair is only between the hood and scoop.. Then you finish off with Rage Bondo..Very simple.. And will work when done right.. Sorry... But I would save the house hold stuff for the house... 14 years is a pretty good test if you ask me...
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Old 01-17-2010, 10:31 AM
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I'm with Newinteriors LEAVE THE HOME PRODUCTS IN THE HOME!! However, using kitty hair to bond a scoop on is BIG TIME old school and there are MANY much better ways to go. That product was never designed to "bond" (that I can remember) it is a filler, a filler that is simply "Bondo" with fiberglass strands in it. Dodge boy, it may look like "fiberglass resin" because that is all ANY "polyester body filler" is, including RAGE or any other filler. The "Kitty hair" has less talc in it (I would imagine) so it is more transparent than a "regular" plastic filler.

But bonding the scoop on with a 2K "panel bonding adhesive" is the way to go in my opinion. This product is used to bond everything from a "composite" (fiberglass like product) rad support to the aluminum frame and apron in a GM EV-1 electric car, to bonding the SMC (again "fiberglass") inner fenders on a C5-C6 Vette to the aluminum frame (after epoxy primer is applied), to slicing a frame rail with no welds or bolts on a 2008 BMW 5 series!! (NO KIDDING)

Years ago grinding to bare metal and then applying a "Vette Panel Adhesive" (like Kitty hair but finer cut fiberglass strands) to bond on something like that was the norm, and I did many like that.

But today using a 2K "Panel Bonding adhesive" is the cats meow. I would say stripping the paint to bare metal and epoxy priming it then scuffing the epoxy and bonding the scoop on would be the best you could do. After that you want to remove all the exposed adhesive and epoxy priming it over the top. Then use something like "Fibertech" the latest generation of fiberglass reinforced filler by Evercoat to smooth it out.

Now, I can't make it clear enough, I have not molded in something like this in years so there may be a better way. But I have did those repairs to frames and Vette inner fenders and the like and this panel bonding adhesive over epoxy primer is THE way to go in my opinion.



Available at http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/m...Category_Code=

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3...beNGQGZXQ0C5gl

http://www.lord.com/Home/ProductsSer...0/Default.aspx

Brian
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Old 01-17-2010, 10:38 AM
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Yes your right.. It is old school,, But it work's.. And I would have to say your way is a lot better.. But remember to let him know how much the gun and stuff will cost compared to the way I said.. I told him that way because most people building there car in there garage, Is wanting to save a little money.. Them gun's with a set up can get a little pricey.. I was just letting him know a cheap and easy way to go.. And work's very very well..
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Old 01-17-2010, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEW INTERIORS
Yes your right.. It is old school,, But it work's.. And I would have to say your way is a lot better.. But remember to let him know how much the gun and stuff will cost compared to the way I said.. I told him that way because most people building there car in there garage, Is wanting to save a little money.. Them gun's with a set up can get a little pricey.. I was just letting him know a cheap and easy way to go.. And work's very very well..
You are right there, it is expensive. But there are a few ways out, the paint store will often loan you the gun.

But honestly, "kitty hair" isn't designed for "Bonding" at all, it is a filler as far as I know or could find in the catalog.

"Kitty Hair®
Best known for its bridging capabilities in rebudiling shattered fiberglass and for reinforcing torn or rusted areas of sheet metal. Formulated with long strands of chopped fiberglass. Double the strength of standard fillers. Waterproof. Rustproof. Can be used with or without fiberglass cloth or mat. Should be finished with Rage® and/or Metal Glaze®. Blue cream hardener included."


Click here for Evercoats site on Kitty Hair.

And here in the tech sheet nothing is mentioned about bonding. They do say things like "bridges well OVER" seams or something like that.

Click here for tech sheet.

I know they don't say anything in this little Fiber tech blurb about using it as an adhesive but but they do mention it in the tech sheet, Do notice that "adhesion" is mentioned where it isn't in the Kitty Hair description.

"Fiber Tech™
An innovative all purpose repair compound formulated with Kevlar® and other high tech fibers. Its superior strength and adhesion is ideal for repairing SMC, rigid plastic body panels, i.e., ground effects, spoilers, running boards, fenders, hoods, etc. It also contains ZNX-7™ for superior adhesion to steel, galvanized steel and aluminum. Blue cream hardener included".


Click here for Fiber Tech

Here is the tech sheet Click here

Then there is good old Vette Panel adhesive. I used tons of this stuff.

"Vette Panel Adhesive/Filler™
A polyester body filler for fiberglass and SMC panels. No shrinkage. Helps prevent repair mapping on seam lines over fiberglass repairs. Used to bond fiberglass panels only, not SMC. Blue cream hardener included. "


Click here for Vette panel adhesive.

And click here for the tech sheet on Vette Panel adhesive.

Your testimonial on the kitty hair working so well for you is a good one. But I wonder if it isn't luck or how nice you treated your truck or some other factors that kept it lasting so long. I have seen nothing but failure over time from most all these products. That is why I suggested to step it up to the panel bonding adhesives used by todays auto manufacturers.

Brian
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Old 01-17-2010, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dodgeboy3406
I was wonder'n if maybe some of that cross bonding resin would be better though. Lord Fusor has some stuff for 'glass on metal. Not sure how it sands though. Being a bolt on scoop there is no need to use screws. Just wish there were some previsions for blending it to the hood, not just thin straight edges.
Man, this site is great. Maybe I should have given more info.
I have the Fusor gun from another project so I have the ability to go there. Reading the product specs for their different epoxies I like the thermal expansion control claims....hope'n that means non crack'n. I restate, the scoop is a bolt on version so I am mostly look'n for blending and gap filling as the bolts will keep that sucker down....but if the Fusor epoxy will bond and help with feather edging...I'm in. Remember, the hard part is, I have no feathering "flange" to work with here. Just a 90 deg. seam between scoop and hood. Any product I use in that seam will need to be blended smooth.
I have read like you said Martinsr that you should "remove" excess epoxy after cure, I assume in preparation for feather edging with what ever "bondo" you choose.....am I correct??? Guess'n fillers won't bond to the epoxy. How is this stuff "removed" ??? Sanded...scraped...solvent ??? Never used this stuff before...can you tell...lol
Thanx again guys for your time and effort. I appreciate all the input I am being given.
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Old 01-17-2010, 12:19 PM
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Your right it isn't for bonding,, But ti sure bonds good to a car..Right.. I'm only posting the 14 year results.. If he doesn't want to use it..That's him.. I will keep doing it this way.. And thing that will last 14 years with no crack's is pretty da** good if you ask me.. It must have bonded pretty good..This isn't something that someone told someone that told me..I DID IT.!!!!!

If you only live by what you read,, Instead of first hand.. You just may never know what work's and what doesn't.. I have tried many many different ways of doing things.. I too have been doing this for a few
YEARS now..

Just do a little test.. And then try to pull it off.. Then you will see just how much it will bond.. (But do it right) Sanding is important..

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Old 01-17-2010, 12:45 PM
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I do have to say that if this is a "bolt on" scoop with a 90 degree point of fit to the hood and no flange to run the filler out, there is NO WAY I would mould the scoop in. You are asking for trouble.

Newinteriors, we are just educating here, and that is all there is to it. The more info we have the better we are. I GUARANTEE bonding the scoop that is being described here with Kitty Hair woulf FAIL. Yours worked for a number of reasons, you did a great job obviously. There are many factors where it won't work, one being where exactly applied and if there is flex in that part of the hood.

Like I said, no argument here, we are chatting, we are learning. I have learned from you and your application that Kitty Hair CAN do that job, I would have never thought it could. I have seen Kitty Hair do some amazing stuff in filling rust holes and crap like that and lasted a long time, the stuff is awesome.

Believe me, I am looking at your trucks hood going "Holy crap, that Kitty hair heldup". I AM learning from your posts too.

And with ALL the info here Dodge boy will be able to make some good choices and get his scoop on.

Brian
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Old 01-17-2010, 01:09 PM
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Flex on any hood would cause cracks with anything you use.. I have seen many vette's where they bonded panel's on with that stuff you are taking about that after just a few years had to be repaired because of cracks.. So the point here is.. No matter what you use, If it isn't prepared right will crack.. If he has a flange on the scoop (and most usually do) it will work find.. As far as flex goes..That truck was built in 4.5 months... I think a Chevy LUV with over 450 hp .. I'm sure it did flex.. EVEN MORE THE WAY I RAN that truck.. so I really think I put it through the test.. Like I said Do what you want.. I said enough..
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