[tech69]

always good to blow it off quickly when you do the grease and wax trick. I usually only do it on a hood or deck when I'm not sure about it and it will only get primed once more. the last time I used it was on a 69 Camaro firewall bodyline. Guys were stumbling to get it done right and when I got on the task it was apparent that the boss only wanted it primed once more. It worked like a charm. Very good for bodylines, but you do gotta dry it THEN blow it off really good. Never had a problem with it messing with the paint but I'm also asking that it not be primed for a day or two.

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by tech69

Never had a problem with it messing with the paint but I'm also asking that it not be primed for a day or two.

That is the thing, sure it can be used, I don't, just don't like to. If you are going to it MUST be fully flashed and that is where the planets can be aligned and end up causing some big problems.

Dry guide coat is going to show the same thing in my opinion. The thing is often problems don't rear their ugly head until after the car is painted and gone. The thought of that filler soaking up the wax and grease remover gives me the hebejebees.

Brian

[tech69]

I think if I didn't use the grease and wax on that camaro firewall I probably would have had a little surprise, as bodylines are very difficult to get a good feel on what they'll look like without wet primer/dry primer. No guidecoat can tell you this. Better yet, we should have a damn bead roller to avoid that whole scenario to begin with.

[69 widetrack]

Originally Posted by MARTINSR

That is the thing, sure it can be used, I don't, just don't like to. If you are going to it MUST be fully flashed and that is where the planets can be aligned and end up causing some big problems.

Dry guide coat is going to show the same thing in my opinion. The thing is often problems don't rear their ugly head until after the car is painted and gone. The thought of that filler soaking up the wax and grease remover gives me the hebejebees.

Brian

Brian...you are so right...why go looking or asking for potential problems...if your only priming once...and you ask for the panel not to be primed for a day or 2 after you use wax and grease remover on a panel, wouldn't it be more productive to spend more time blocking the panel or even priming twice?

Especially filler...it's basically a loose talc sponge that is designed to suck up anything wet (that's why you rarely see primer coming off of filler), 2 part putty does have a finer grind of talc as you mentioned earlier but it will suck up anything wet as well.

Spent the time and don't look for problems...there are enough problems that can bite you without tempting fate.

Ray

[tech69]

Originally Posted by 69 widetrack

Brian...you are so right...why go looking or asking for potential problems...if your only priming once...and you ask for the panel not to be primed for a day or 2 after you use wax and grease remover on a panel, wouldn't it be more productive to spend more time blocking the panel or even priming twice?

Especially filler...it's basically a loose talc sponge that is designed to suck up anything wet (that's why you rarely see primer coming off of filler), 2 part putty does have a finer grind of talc as you mentioned earlier but it will suck up anything wet as well.

Spent the time and don't look for problems...there are enough problems that can bite you without tempting fate.

Ray

now you guys are sounding like Wyo tech kids..."oh my teacher told me blah blah blah." If it didn't work for people it wouldn't be recommended.

[69 widetrack]

Originally Posted by tech69

now you guys are sounding like Wyo tech kids..."oh my teacher told me blah blah blah." If it didn't work for people it wouldn't be recommended.

Don't ever get into this "my teacher told me blah blah blah" BS, it's childish and not professional. These are facts and if you've been doing it...go ahead, keep on doing it...I don't care. I WON'T. My time, reputation and my customers vehicles are to valuable to me to risk it on tempting fate.

You do what ever you like but, one thing that does get me P.O.ed is when somebody gets on this forum and gives advice that can have the potential for someone who is new to this part of the hobby and make a horrific mistake....all because you said "I've never had a problem".

Only the truth.
Ray

[69 widetrack]

I don't know who recommended it...it sure wasn't me...

[MARTINSR]

People have been doing a lot of things wrong for years, take a look at the butyl tape thread, I mounted windows for years with butyl tape, just like most everyone else, that don't make it right.

When you see failures as a rep, where you are called out to failures that could have been avoided, you learn to do the work even better. It's like the estimator who has to deliver cars to unhappy customers. If the body man or painter had to do that a while he would become MUCH better at the details. People with no experience what so ever see the flaws that a seasoned pro can miss. Believe me, that is a great education.

Brian

[abarli65]

Just so everyone can sleep tonight... I will not be spraying the hood till next Sat at the earliest.. could be weeks from now even. I think most everything will be flashed out enough by then.

My initial coat of epoxy was done almost 3 years ago... At the rate I am going on this car, I should not have to worry about any shrinkage or flashing off of any of my layers.

And... no fighting in my thread! lol

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by abarli65

Just so everyone can sleep tonight... I will not be spraying the hood till next Sat at the earliest.. could be weeks from now even. I think most everything will be flashed out enough by then.

My initial coat of epoxy was done almost 3 years ago... At the rate I am going on this car, I should not have to worry about any shrinkage or flashing off of any of my layers.

And... no fighting in my thread! lol

LOL Really, that made me giggle.

Brian

[69 widetrack]

Originally Posted by MARTINSR

People have been doing a lot of things wrong for years, take a look at the butyl tape thread, I mounted windows for years with butyl tape, just like most everyone else, that don't make it right.

When you see failures as a rep, where you are called out to failures that could have been avoided, you learn to do the work even better. It's like the estimator who has to deliver cars to unhappy customers. If the body man or painter had to do that a while he would become MUCH better at the details. People with no experience what so ever see the flaws that a seasoned pro can miss. Believe me, that is a great education.

Brian

Again Brian...so true...when you represent a product rarely does a shop call you to tell you how wonderful the product is working, your problem solving for much of the time and in most cases it's human error that you need to diplomatically correct.

The bright side of being a rep is that you do get to see all the different problems from numerous shops and many technicians and the longer you do that particular job the more you learn. I always felt that I had the benefit of learning from many people making mistakes and because of the education I got, I feel I became a better technician.

Yes Brian, if some people could walk a mile in someone else's shoes, there might be a little higher level of understanding. As I told my son when be became an engineer, I told him that I was proud of him but he had only met the minimum requirements to be an engineer and that he would would learn a lot more in the real world than he ever did in school. Life is an education, just wish more people would learn from it.

[MARTINSR]

It's like how I learned how hard a "salesman" works. My dad was in sales my whole life and I bought into the BS that it wasn't really "working". LOL I sure learned what a bunch of crap that was in short while! I remember being out on the road and calling him to thank him for how hard he worked to put food on his families table. It was MUCH, harder physically than working on cars every day. That includes working in the office now, it is MUCH harder physically on the body. I got clean clothes and walked from the shop into the office, I am not blowing air out of my butt. Other than a hard day on the frame rack or blocking complete cars, it is MUCH harder what I do now than hanging quarters and such. But tell that to a guy who has never worn the other hat, oh my God, you are a lying piece of crap.

Brian

[69 widetrack]

Originally Posted by abarli65

Just so everyone can sleep tonight... I will not be spraying the hood till next Sat at the earliest.. could be weeks from now even. I think most everything will be flashed out enough by then.

My initial coat of epoxy was done almost 3 years ago... At the rate I am going on this car, I should not have to worry about any shrinkage or flashing off of any of my layers.

And... no fighting in my thread! lol

Thank God your not painting for a while...not because I was worried about flashing, I thought I might need to get my prescription for Temazapam refilled just to get that good night sleep....LOL.

Ray

[69 widetrack]

Originally Posted by MARTINSR

It's like how I learned how hard a "salesman" works. My dad was in sales my whole life and I bought into the BS that it wasn't really "working". LOL I sure learned what a bunch of crap that was in short while! I remember being out on the road and calling him to thank him for how hard he worked to put food on his families table. It was MUCH, harder physically than working on cars every day. That includes working in the office now, it is MUCH harder physically on the body. I got clean clothes and walked from the shop into the office, I am not blowing air out of my butt. Other than a hard day on the frame rack or blocking complete cars, it is MUCH harder what I do now than hanging quarters and such. But tell that to a guy who has never worn the other hat, oh my God, you are a lying piece of crap.

Brian

When your in "sales" and if you want to be the best you can be, you better know your product inside and out. If you don't, you'll be eaten alive by potential and existing customers. Is it harder than working on the floor, damn straight it is, you need to be everything that you where on the floor and more. Your expected to have answers and when you don't you better get them, because the competition is right behind you with a bunch of them. If you try and BS your way through a problem and you get caught...often your done. It's not baseball where you get 3 strikes. I had a fair amount of success by saying I don't know but I'll find out compared to the rep that had a bogus answer for everything.

Ray

[MARTINSR]

I have to tell you, my "numbers" where not good when I was a rep, I was blown away by other reps in sales increases each year. It had been about 8 years since I was a rep and I went to NACE in Vegas and ran into my old boss. He asked me to come back, he told me every rep who had my territory after me had to hear about me. He told me that he would move the guy who had my territory somewhere else and I could have it back! Can you imagine this, I was so damn proud, proud of what my dad had taught me about sales, fill the customers needs. Don't EVER sell something that the customer doesn't need. Find his need and fill it, that is what he taught me. Service, service service!

I remember a particular hard ars customer whom I sprayed in his shop while his painter when to the S-W school. I then stayed there when he came back and worked with him. The next time I visited that shop the owner ran me around to all the cars his painter had painted showing me proudly how beautiful they were. He was so damn happy he damn near kissed me.

And I can't stress enough here Ray, Henry is as TOP KNOTCH craftsmen as you are going to come across. We are just tossing things around here, it doesn't change my respect for him just because of this discussion. I don't need to see his work personally to know it, reading his comments tells me so.

Brian