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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2013, 07:39 AM
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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
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Originally Posted by tech69 View Post
keep in mind we had this same conversation but the roles were reversed when you said a novice should open butt weld a new quarter on. Yeah, I get 5 "being right" points!

The better you get the more you realize ANY shop other than Boyd's will take shortcuts. If I wanted to do the work I really wanted I'd be in my garage. No shop is above this but a handful.
Henry, like any trade there are piles of "short cuts" the pro learns, that is one of the things that makes him a pro!

I don't remember about telling a novice to open butt weld a quarter. But depending on his skill level he could pull it off. But I also get my butt kicked on forums for suggesting a lap weld and get the old story how it breeds rust and bla bla so I can't win in that department.

You can have your five points, it's cool. Hell Henry, I have a lot of respect for your knowledge, I am going to give you 10 more being right points just because you deserve it.

Brian

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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2013, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
Henry, like any trade there are piles of "short cuts" the pro learns, that is one of the things that makes him a pro!

I don't remember about telling a novice to open butt weld a quarter. But depending on his skill level he could pull it off. But I also get my butt kicked on forums for suggesting a lap weld and get the old story how it breeds rust and bla bla so I can't win in that department.

You can have your five points, it's cool. Hell Henry, I have a lot of respect for your knowledge, I am going to give you 10 more being right points just because you deserve it.

Brian
you told him to open butt weld a quarter patch if I can recall. You and I could probably do it but I don't think a novice can. So give me my points, damn it!
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2013, 09:30 AM
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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
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You got-um buddy!

Brian
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2013, 09:54 AM
put up or shut up
 

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Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
Henry, most of the time you are right, you are an excellent Tech. Although I have never taught apprentices at Wyo Tech I have taught at several Colleges through out Canada. When you teach prospective body men and painters you do your best to teach them the correct way and a way that will minimize problems that they may encounter in their careers. Have I taken short cuts...without a doubt I have, anybody who says that they never have and has been in the trade for any length of time has, if they say they haven't they're lying. Has it ever bit me in the butt when I've taken these short cuts, you bet it has. I remember one time I was doing a paint job and ran out of reducer...another well respected painter told me to use another brand, he had "done it many times and never had a problem". The paint looked great, until the detail guy went to wash the car before delivery and washed the paint off. Why did this happen to me when the other painter "never had a problem" (sound familiar). It happened because I took a short cut and was to lazy to wait for the correct product to finish the job. Who took the brunt of criticism from the shop owner, I did, and rightfully so, I should have known better. Did I go run to my employer and say but "this other painter told me so", no, that's not professional...I should have known better. I fully understand that when your in the shop environment short cuts are sometimes taken, it's a fact of being in that environment. The people that are posting and asking for advice aren't in that environment, they're asking for advice, why, because they don't know and they're asking you because you have the experience and you my friend are being asked because they respect you and you're judgement. Then if this is the case, why would you give them advice that could cause problems for them? You know better, your good at what you do.

I'm not posting on here to get points for being correct...that's ludicrous. My phone rings daily, Emails by the hundreds over the past few months, all from members on this site. Do I get paid, no, am I looking for brownie points, no. Why do I do it, because when I was new to the trade many people took me under their wing and guided me, all I'm trying to do is pay back by helping the people that are interested enough to know the proper way. You mentioned in your last post that "If I wanted to do the work I really wanted I'd be in my garage. No shop is above this but a handful". You are correct in saying that No shop is above this but a handful...as I mentioned, I have taken shortcuts...it doesn't make it right and by your admission that "If I wanted to do the work I really wanted I'd be in my garage" your saying you have done things wrong as well, that's understandable, but please, don't try and get harsh with people that are pointing out errors that are made in posts...if your feelings got hurt, I'm sorry, if your ego got bruised, again I'm sorry but, I'm not going to allow what I feel to be incorrect information to be sent out their to protect anybody's ego or feelings. If your wrong, your wrong, just admit it and move on, People will think more highly of you if you admit your mistakes than if you continue to try and defend them. I know I would.

As far as Brian slandering, hardly. Slander is a dangerous word...please explain to me how he slandered and how he hurt the reputation of any shop...the definition of slander is to say something that is incorrect about a person or a business and the ramifications negatively affect them. So if Brian slandered anyone or any shop, please name them...Brian didn't.

Henry, you are an excellent Tech, you do great work...you do however have a chip on your shoulder...look in the mirror, find out which shoulder holds that chip and take it off, your life will get a lot easier. I've read many of your posts, I don't care if you are Mexican...I had respect for your ability from the first time I read your posts and thought to myself, here is a guy that knows...I didn't know your ethnic background and when I found out I didn't care...your still a great technician and even through out this discussion we are having I'm not changing my mind about your ability, as I mentioned, that's a constant...just try and take an edge off your attitude and you'll garner even more respect.

Sorry for being brutally honest...but sometimes that's what it takes. If this post offends you, well you have another shoulder to put a chip on...just don't keep adding to many chips, they get heavy after a while and can weigh you down...please take it from a guy that's been there, done that and didn't gain anything from it.

Still respect your workmanship and your ability.

Your friend...Ray
what the hell does being Mexican have to do with anything? I actually don't like how minorities want special attention these days, but with that said, I refuse to be that Mexican in the back prepping for $10 an hour. Is that not something that goes on in the shops? Just being honest here. I have a chip on my shoulder cause I've dealt with many older folks who know a lot more than me but couldn't hold a candle to my work and I have to always be humble in the shop and "PRETEND" it's not so because that would mean getting paid more. So I just soak it in everyday at work just so I can pick their brains and go along with pretending, but I also have my ways of alerting the know nothing boss. For instance, when the boss says you work from start to finish back half he works the front half. When it comes time and I see what's wrong with the front half I will leave the front half as it is cause I never got credit for fixing it before and this I know the boss knows what he touched and what I touched, but since we're pretending here they won't ever be honest about who does what. When someone tells you you're doing something wrong with your rust work when the reality is they just want less than make it out to be you're being a rook, that doesn't bode well with me. When the other guy they think does it right doesn't do it right but thinks so cause they know no better and cause he has more experience, where is my respect, where is my thanks for only doing the rust work he can NEVER do? I go along with this pretend game only cause I like doing the cars, I like the info the old man gives, even though I have to pretend his work is as good as mine, and because I'm waiting for a better restoration shop to offer a job. I do not want to work for any other job other than a metal fab type shop. I will gladly play the pretend game over there. It's humbling, this trade.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2013, 10:17 AM
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Henry, boy oh boy does what you just described bring back memories! That full on restoration shop I went to work at years ago had the same thing. I was hired as a "helper" and I don't think a month went by and the boss let go the painter go and I was the only painter in the shop! That being said there were a couple of bodymen who were HORRIBLE. One would say over and over how he had been doing this stuff for 40 years and I would say under my breath "Yeah, and you have been doing it wrong for 40 years". But get this, I was being paid crap, it was a union shop and I was an apprentice. But I would have to come in early so I could fix the body work the old man did before I primed it! I just couldn't understand why in the world would the owner have this guy when the work needed to be done over.
And by the apprentice no less.

On the race issue, that has NO PLACE at Hotrodders or anywhere else! I hope it never comes up again. I got just a little understanding of the thread where this was mentioned a while ago and had no interest to read it so I don't know exactly what happen and don't care to. It is pure out and out BS "race" is one of the most over used excuses for way too many people. First off there is no such thing really as far as how anyone does anything, that is CULTURE not "race" there are VERY few things that makes us different due to "race", what makes us different is culture. If I was raised in Tokyo I would think and behave like those in Tokyo, if a Japanese baby born in Tokyo was brought to California at a day old and raised in my home he would think and behave like those here in California, race would have ZERO to do with it. Other than the GOOD THINGS about different cultures (like food. ) that we can celebrate, there is absolutely no reason to ever bring it up, it is not useful.

Brian
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2013, 10:25 AM
put up or shut up
 

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Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
Henry, boy oh boy does what you just described bring back memories! That full on restoration shop I went to work at years ago had the same thing. I was hired as a "helper" and I don't think a month went by and the boss let go the painter go and I was the only painter in the shop! That being said there were a couple of bodymen who were HORRIBLE. One would say over and over how he had been doing this stuff for 40 years and I would say under my breath "Yeah, and you have been doing it wrong for 40 years". But get this, I was being paid crap, it was a union shop and I was an apprentice. But I would have to come in early so I could fix the body work the old man did before I primed it! I just couldn't understand why in the world would the owner have this guy when the work needed to be done over.
And by the apprentice no less.

On the race issue, that has NO PLACE at Hotrodders or anywhere else! I hope it never comes up again. I got just a little understanding of the thread where this was mentioned a while ago and had no interest to read it so I don't know exactly what happen and don't care to. It is pure out and out BS "race" is one of the most over used excuses for way too many people. First off there is no such thing really as far as how anyone does anything, that is CULTURE not "race" there are VERY few things that makes us different due to "race", what makes us different is culture. If I was raised in Tokyo I would think and behave like those in Tokyo, if a Japanese baby born in Tokyo was brought to California at a day old and raised in my home he would think and behave like those here in California, race would have ZERO to do with it. Other than the GOOD THINGS about different cultures (like food. ) that we can celebrate, there is absolutely no reason to ever bring it up, it is not useful.

Brian
I agree, race is stupid, but at the same time it hurts me to see Mexicans only doing the crap work in shops. It really hurts me to see that. All I'm saying is that I refuse that role but I also refuse the role of a victim, but I will not ignore what I see with my own two eyes. I have disregarded all Mexican culture cause I am an American but I can't overlook seeing good guys in **** positions that just coincidentally always seem to be the mexican guy. Now I'm not like my father in law who will sit there and say Mark Sanchez is underrated cause like anyone else in America I know Mr, Buttfumblez is horrible and blew away playoff hopes against The Jaguars of all teams. NOW THAT, is bias. I don't play that one, but I won't be in denial either. Enough said about that.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2013, 11:08 AM
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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
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I have to say, thank goodness that doesn't happen where I work!

Brian
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2013, 11:13 AM
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If either of you feel that my comment was at all racist...I apologize and I mean that with all sincerity...It was not meant to be in any way shape or form. This issue seems to be a hot button to you Henry and all I was trying to do is inform you that I'm not that guy. I don't care what race anybody is, I look at the person and what that person is all about, but, whatever nationality you are shouldn't have anything to do with what a person accomplishes...again, I didn't mean to offend, if anything I meant it to be that I understood...but...did you get anything else out of that post?

If either of you would like to know to what extent I understand prejudism...please PM me...and I'll explain.

To anyone that feels that my comments where at all racist, again I apologize.

Ray
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2013, 11:29 AM
put up or shut up
 

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why are we still talking about race? You didn't say anything racist but you did bring it up.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2013, 11:44 AM
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Then Henry, to you I apologize...as I mentioned...I did not mean to offend you and your right...that comment shouldn't have been made...my error...and again for that I am sorry. I did bring it up to in fact let you know that I wasn't...I would have been better off to have not said anything at all in that regard.

I guess this goes to show how delicate the whole situation is and I have learned something here today, I sincerely thank you for that. It's not what I came on this forum to learn but, any day you learn something is a good day.

Still gotta ask you...is that all you got from that post?

Ray
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2013, 12:04 PM
put up or shut up
 

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Then Henry, to you I apologize...as I mentioned...I did not mean to offend you and your right...that comment shouldn't have been made...my error...and again for that I am sorry. I did bring it up to in fact let you know that I wasn't...I would have been better off to have not said anything at all in that regard.

I guess this goes to show how delicate the whole situation is and I have learned something here today, I sincerely thank you for that. It's not what I came on this forum to learn but, any day you learn something is a good day.

Still gotta ask you...is that all you got from that post?

Ray
that was a lengthy post and a pretty cliche response. If I don't know something I'm always the first to ask and am confident enough in my skill and ability that it doesn't matter how rook it may sound or come off but when I DO know something, I know it enough to know that I get my respect thru my work and that's all that matters. I'm here to learn too like that guy who was asking but I will also stand by what I know that works, even if it's not I Car approved, and I am I CAR platinim but that means nothing to me if you can't go out and prove you can actually do the work.
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2013, 12:29 PM
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I don't know what you mean by a cliche response. This isn't about respect for your work...you've got that...it's about giving out information that could backfire on the person that your giving it to. You know yourself that in the hands of an inexperienced person the information that was given could have drastic results and when you where corrected you went off on a tangent of poor comparisons trying to back up what you posted.

Every response I've posted here has been sincere...nothing cliche about them or my apology. I was wrong in bringing anything up in the context that I did...I didn't do it to offend. Your Wyo Tech comment was meant to offend and it did.

Still Sincere
Ray
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Old 01-07-2013, 07:05 PM
put up or shut up
 

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I don't know what you mean by a cliche response. This isn't about respect for your work...you've got that...it's about giving out information that could backfire on the person that your giving it to. You know yourself that in the hands of an inexperienced person the information that was given could have drastic results and when you where corrected you went off on a tangent of poor comparisons trying to back up what you posted.

Every response I've posted here has been sincere...nothing cliche about them or my apology. I was wrong in bringing anything up in the context that I did...I didn't do it to offend. Your Wyo Tech comment was meant to offend and it did.

Still Sincere
Ray
you're right, I'm sorry. It does work for me though and haven't had any comebacks due to it but I see your point, and I was off point. So I'll give you 10 being right points....kidding.
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Old 01-07-2013, 07:23 PM
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Thank you...you always had my respect for your ability...now your getting my respect for the person who I know you are....to me that's worth a lot.

Thanks again.

Ray
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2013, 09:18 PM
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So what do you guys think of my hood?
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