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Old 05-11-2010, 09:30 PM
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Fighting speeding ticket, both officers have to appear?

Got a speeding ticket on a 6 lane highway (3 lanes each way) very busy traffic with trucks and many cars, I am driving in the far left passing lane following a pick up. Police had a van on the side of the road shooting radar out the back window with an officer in the drivers seat radio'ing ahead to officers who jump on the highway and pull you over. I think I can fight this because I was not speeding or doing the speed they claim. Also the median was only 3 ft so the radar in reality could also be picking up the traffic going the other way. I am fighting it, so at trial, do both officers have to be in court? I would think so if I want to ask questions. If only one shows up, can I site this as the other needed? Any help appreciated.
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Old 05-12-2010, 06:59 AM
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I personally don't think you have a chance.

Vince
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Old 05-12-2010, 07:08 AM
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neither do I but Good Luck anyway and let us know what the outcome is
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Old 05-12-2010, 09:22 AM
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You were both correct. Found guilty, but I am thinking now appeal. I went in with the thought of pleading it down hoping for a break and explaining some personal issues of hopes for a reduction. Officer was a female and as I sat in the waiting room, I could hear discussion in the hall way. She came in with other officer who sat in van and said to whoever was out there she thought I was coming in to ask for a reduction and she said no way to it. I overheard this and all of a sudden I thought I needed to change my position but did not thinking maybe I could change her mind. I did plead when asked, not guilty. Well I find out during the hearing the officer states the radar gun only has to be checked or calibrated once a year and shows me a paper to this effect which he does not give me a copy. Then during his testimony, I had assumed it was a radar gun in the back of the van looking out the rear window and getting speed readings that way. He states the van is not normally used for this type of work but because it is unmarked they went with it. Also when I asked where radar was he did say something about being unable to plug the gun in back there or wire would not reach that far. He states he can see me speeding in his side mirror (I am saying this on the lives of my pets that traffic that day was very busy with all three lanes very crowded and I was following a pick up truck in the third passing lane, so unless he is superman with Xray vision, its impossible to judge my speed in his mirror with all the traffic) and then as I go by, he mentions they open the door sometimes but in this case uses the gun in the van to get me which again considering the gun could hit a car coming at him in one of the other three lanes heading in his direction with heavy traffic because the median is only 2 1/2 feet high. The proof for heavy traffic is he radios ahead for the officer to come after me and she can't even get out into traffic and finally pulls me over after driving a mile (went back and measured it) and then had to sit in her car for about a minute because she could not even get out of her car to talk to me with the heavy traffic. And this is all going on near a small airport where planes are landing and flying very close to the ground which I thought effects radar. Yes I could have been speeding, but it was not like I was blowing by everyone else. We were all in a pack together, including the trucks next to me. I ask for reduction and they pull my record which has no points and the thought is now that I will get 5, I can still drive, will think about speeding again because if caught, will lose license. He even brought up people come in and get a reduction and feel they can speed again because they can get caught again without fear of losing their license. The female officer (on another note, I have to say, she was probably the most beautiful state cop I have ever seen, she was really attractive) goes on about the speed (84) and starts talking about accidents at that speed and how she has seen them at high speeds and so on. What really did not help my case was I have read when getting a ticket to get as much evidence and pictures and anything that might help. Since this was very close to my home, I went home got my camera and went back to location and pulled about 400 yards behind the van and took some pictures. During the hearing the officer in the van asked if I had come back and stopped behind the van and I explained I did but I told them I had thought if I came to talk to him, maybe I could help my case but then he said I was at risk stopping because on such a busy road which he brought up how dangerous it was with all the traffic, I should not have done this. Not sure he saw the camera but no flash went off. He said he was tempted to call an officer to check on me but did not. My real issue is looking in his side mirror and seeing me among all those other vehicles and saying I was speeding, I find hard to believe. I even offered to pay any additional court costs which could be added (careful not to make it sound like a bribe) for their time if an agreement could be reached on a reduction. That female officer was just not going to give. And she had that smug look on her face.

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Old 05-12-2010, 10:27 AM
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Did you have a lawyer?
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:17 AM
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no, but now looking at what happened, I should have. My intent going in was to plead it down and move on. At least I thought that until I heard the comment in the hallway and then realized I wish Perry Mason were here .

I am just surprised the location of where it took place considering all the factors which are being claimed would have an effect on the radar being accurate. Why would the police set it up there? With the very strong views from all on various sites of how to handle the hearing, you would think after much searching, I could find some very knowledgeable people who have testified in detail their tested findings on results of radar and then post their professional results and opinions. I see all kinds of comments about how Radar does not work near airports, with CB's in use, traffic patterns and all the other ways it fails, but have yet to see any one with professional credibility or recognized knowledge in this field who has done proven testing to confirm these thoughts. Or maybe you just have to pay to find out, but it seems the shady guys are asking for the money to help beat the ticket and no one with a degree of some type, qualified to do various tests and then offer results is actually out there.
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Old 05-12-2010, 02:11 PM
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ever heard the old saying about fighting City Hall ??

give it up and count your blessings
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Old 05-12-2010, 02:29 PM
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Forget it, you are fighting a loosing battle and you could feel the ire of the judge for tying up court time on it.

Vince
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Old 05-12-2010, 07:59 PM
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Without an independant witness or video record of the event you don't have a chance, the officers word will always be taken over yours and they always stick together.

You would have been better off pleading guilty with an explanation and hope for a reduced fine, you could have said anything and they have to take your word for it when pleading for a reduced fine.
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:15 PM
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Judge: Officer Morgan, please you state your case.

Officer Morgan: It was 2:24 pm on a clear day of 71 degrees with a visibility of 14 miles. There was a 16 mph south western wind. I was parked 198 ft north of the intersection of Omar street and Clay bl. observing traffic traveling on Omar street which has a posted 35 MPH limit. I witnessed Mr Amadauss approaching in the number I lane overtaking cars in number two and three lanes. He was in a bright yellow 2005 Kia Sportage with his left turn signal on. I aimed my Binford K1500 Radar gun at him. It recorded a speed of 76 mph. The Binford K1500 is calibrated at the factory at 55 mph with a Binford R520 tuning fork. It is calibrated at the start of each shift with the same Binford R520 tuning fork. It was tested is and within .00002 MPH at the end my shift as a law enforcement officer in this fine city for the past 28 years 5 months and 12 days. Mr. Amadauss was given the citation in accordance with section 1.558 of the state vehicle code book section 5.48.

Judge: Mr. Amadauss what is your side of the story.

Mr. Amadauss: Duhhhhhhh, I wasn't speeding.
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Old 05-13-2010, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
Judge: Officer Morgan, please you state your case.

Officer Morgan: It was 2:24 pm on a clear day of 71 degrees with a visibility of 14 miles. There was a 16 mph south western wind. I was parked 198 ft north of the intersection of Omar street and Clay bl. observing traffic traveling on Omar street which has a posted 35 MPH limit. I witnessed Mr Amadauss approaching in the number I lane overtaking cars in number two and three lanes. He was in a bright yellow 2005 Kia Sportage with his left turn signal on. I aimed my Binford K1500 Radar gun at him. It recorded a speed of 76 mph. The Binford K1500 is calibrated at the factory at 55 mph with a Binford R520 tuning fork. It is calibrated at the start of each shift with the same Binford R520 tuning fork. It was tested is and within .00002 MPH at the end my shift as a law enforcement officer in this fine city for the past 28 years 5 months and 12 days. Mr. Amadauss was given the citation in accordance with section 1.558 of the state vehicle code book section 5.48.

Judge: Mr. Amadauss what is your side of the story.

Mr. Amadauss: Duhhhhhhh, I wasn't speeding.
I have beat tickets that I felt that I didn't deserve but it has always cost more to fight the ticket than it would have cost to just pay the fine. The first thing is to consult an attorney, if you show up in court without one the above statement pretty much sums up what happens. The last one I fought wasn't even a moving violation and my attorney questioned why I would even want to fight it since he would have to charge me over twice what the ticket would cost to start on the case. I told him that I would gladly pay him twice than them once since I didn't deserve the ticket. That ended with an apology from the Chief of Police.
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Old 05-13-2010, 06:27 PM
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Its just a racket for them to make money. 90% of the time I think you could argue that its more of a traffic hazard to have a cop stopped on the side of the road in rush hour writing a ticket and backing up traffic, people slamming on their brakes, than to just let traffic proceed as normal. I've fought a couple of tickets too, but in my experience it doesn't matter what you say. They have already decided long before you show up whether they're willing to cut a deal (the same deal they'll offer everybody, increased fine, less points, at least in the corrupt state of NJ).

I don't understand how you ended up with 5 points, though. What was the speed limit? Was it the 55 MPH section of I-80 out where you live? IF you were doing close to 85 in a 55 maybe I could see the 5 points but still seems pretty excessive. The only thing that might make me move to a lawyer is the 5 points. That's a huge jump in insurance and risks your license in the future...

K
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Old 05-13-2010, 08:06 PM
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It was Rt 78/309 believe it or not near the Lehigh Valley, coming down a hill towards Lehigh St. Exit. (I loved your post Martinsr and it made me smile reading it). yes they change the speed limit there for whatever reason to 55 and I was going 84 according to them. What really bothers me is I am dead serious when I say traffic was very heavy and I was following a pick up truck with 18 wheelers and cars in the two lanes next to me. When the officer said he observed me speeding in his side mirror, thats when I felt wronged by a guy who put his hand up and swore to tell the truth. There is no way following that pick up with all of us going about the same speed (no one drives under 70 going down that hill) he could say he saw me speeding in his side mirror (the car is brown in color), I don't care how good he is at judging speed. And to pass his vehicle and then he gets me holding his gun inside the van which he claimed was not usually used for this type of speed trap, shooting at me between all those trucks and cars and the possiblity he could have got a reading from all the cars in the other three lanes coming at him was my wake up call to say this is BS and fight it, especially getting the five points which they know will up my insurance. Sad part is I even brought up my two family members who were state police at their barracks from years past and this didn't even help. You are all right, will probably lose, but I was willing to pay the fine, not looking for a reduction in the costs, just the speed. I think I pissed them off when I came back to take pictures and they saw me but I don't think they saw the camera. And I believe all of you in the thought of just walking away and forget it would be the best thing to do but then I would be falling in to the trap to what seems to be what the boys in power want all of us to do right now, become sheep and let them run the show, no matter how bad they do it. That cop lied, and I just can't let him get away with it. I was doing over 55 but not 84. In South Carolina on vacation, I got pulled over for speeding at 5 am in the morning and got a ticket. When we got home I received 4 letters all from lawyers offering to represent me and they would get me off by claiming a malfunctioning speedometer. I picked one, signed the P.O.A. he sent me and the 400 dollar check and he got me off. Nothing on my record. How sad is that. Again thanks to all for the posts and help and will keep you updated on what happens.
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Old 05-13-2010, 08:14 PM
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it cost me more to take the day off of work than to just pay the ticket
but i cant have to many tickets or i loose my comercial license
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Old 05-13-2010, 08:55 PM
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It can piss us off and we can fight, but the fact is paying the ticket is better for our gut and our wallet.

I have had two tickets in the past year, both were out and out BULL CHIT. One was a no seat belt ticket for my son who was sitting behind me. I told him that I WANTED him to tell me he didn't have it on, he was not only not in trouble, I WANTED him to tell me because at least I wouldn't be so mad at the cop. He looked me in the eye and swore he had it on.

I had been sitting in line at the light and the curb parking squeezes down to nothing about 50 ft from the corner where the street was widened a number of years ago. The curb and sidewalk end right there and the street is instantly ten feet or so wider at the end of the sidewalk. As I am sitting there some car drives past me at the curb and drives up a driveway portion of the curb with the right side of the car and squeezes past me with the left wheels on the street and the right on the friggin sidewalk!

The light turns and as I am moving forward I see a motorcycle cop sitting there on the sidewalk right past where the old side walk ends. This car drove right past him and I couldn't believe he let him go. As I roll buy he pulls out and hits his lights. When he pulled me over and told me why my son said from the back seat, "Dad, I had them on" and the cop YELLED at my son saying "Don't you lie to your father". I couldn't believe it being I had NEVER had a problem with belts and my kids. It has been a thing, just a simple thing we do since birth. Never a fight, nothing, they just put them on. Well, my son has adhd and is a "challenge" child. I figured he was screwing off and took them off for a minute. Well after my son said he DID have them on at home I went back to the exact spot where he was sitting on his bike at the same time of day (dusk) and there is NO WAY, NO FRIGGIN WAY you could see if ANYONE in a car driving buy had seat belts on, other than the passenger front. He as all the way behind me in the back. There is NO WAY, absolutely no way you could see if he had them on or not!

I thought about it and thought about it and paid the friggin fine. It wasn't worth it, I could fight like hell and it is his word against a 11 year old. He would win.

The last one was similar, but I did break the law, I turned right at a red light where there is a sign saying not to. This is the ONLY corner in the entire city that has this sign. All others you can come to a stop, then proceed as if it's a stop sign. But this light they put up this sign because people were using the street as a short cut and the people who live on the street complained. Again, BS revenue builder ($205!). What can I fight, refer to my post three or four posts ago.

Nope, life is too short, I would only be madder. I paid them and went on with life.

Brian
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