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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 08-04-2004, 10:15 AM
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Martin, LMBO, as much as I would dislike the "chicken", if it was well done, making the paint score higher (quality, quantity, and degree of difficulty) then it would win.

unstable, actually some of those cars have had $500,000.00 spent on them. Sometimes it comes down to those hidden details that win. At those type of shows every thing has to be on paper (judging sheets) tallied and re tallied. The judges are paid several thousand dollars each to work those shows, if they are not good judges then they don't do many shows.

I'm not saying that all shows are judged that way. Certainly your outdoor neighborhood shows are not.

Most things that can be done to a car have already been done, it comes down to who can do them the best. And when something new is down to individualize a car, then certainly that would weigh heavily with the judges. It should come done to who did what they did the best ( detail ).

Troy

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 08-04-2004, 10:36 AM
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back to the point. use "bolt on" electrical knock out seals to fill the holes and weld them in. there are many sizes that are a perfect fit for the holes in my 55 chevy truck's firewall. made life alot easier. also when i filled the gas filler hole in the side. i used one that was a perfect fit. covered with some bondo.

want goofey cars? www.burningman.com

as far as painted engine compartments, i love them over black. stock is always black. and my paint shop wants a whole lot more to paint it. i really wanted my camaro;s to be painted cause i had the engine out. but i would have had to tow it there. it was more pain intheass than it was worth. i've seen nice cars as well with black engine bays so....
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 08-04-2004, 05:04 PM
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"Frenching the firewall

Faced with the same dilema on my Mercury - Holes in the firewall.
There are 3 holes (1 in., 1 3/8 in., and one 1 1/2 in.). I'm concerned that welding the flush fitting patches in will warp the firewall even though I plan on skip-spot welding them in. I ordered from Eastwood some "heat-disipating putty" that supposeidly will draw the heat away from tne panel if you surround the work area with it. Has anyone tried this stuff?
Just an hour ago I discussed this firewall problem with a man in Pasedena, Texas who does custom work (had some FINE cars sitting around his shop and was working on a custom air scoop - I was impressed with the quality of his work and any projects above my very limited ability will be done by him). The man reccomended that I use 3M #8115 epoxy to bond a plate behind the holes and use the usual bondo method to finish the holes. I think however, that I will first bond the patches I made to the backing plates and then bond the backing plates (from the rear) to the firewall and then finish the work with bondo. This will minimize the bondo mass and maybe be less likely to crack and otherwise screw up because of the hot/cold environment.
Any thoughts, advice or reccomendations on this would be appreciated,
Tks.
Charlie Smith
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-2004, 07:29 AM
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if you're going to use bondo either way...I personally wouldn't worry about the warpage too much. Make the patches the same size as the holes, or as close as you can get them, tack them in, working in a circle doing "blips". Keep working until it's all the way in, grind smooth, hit with bondo.

I'd be interested to know what guys like Randy would do for this...because doing metal finishing on an in-tact firewall would be difficult without a helper...probably even with a helper.
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Old 08-05-2004, 07:52 AM
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Firewall Hole

Thanks for the encouragement. I really would like to weld these bungs in and I don't think there will be a warp problem - Hell, this is 16 ga. metal.
Charlis Smith
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-2004, 08:06 AM
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Don't think for a second that 16 guage won't warp, heck you can warp a FRAME if you weld it incorrectly. You still have to manage the heat and be very careful.

Being the fire wall has lots of body lines to keep the rigidity and is 16 guage, you are right, there is a lot less of a chance of warpage, but it can warp.

If you really wanted to cut to the chase and not weld, Bonding a patch on the back with a panel bonding adhesive would be as good as it gets.

Cut a patch an inch or so larger than the hole, grind the back of the hole with 36 grit, grind the patch so those ground areas meet when you stick the thing up there. Apply a quality Bonding adhesive like 3M's 08115 and after curing grind off the excess. Apply a coat of Evercoat's "Everglass" over the area and a skim coat of polyester putty and your done.

Welding is ALWAYS the perfered way, but not everyone has a welder or the skills. A qualtiy bonded on patch is a close second to welding.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-2004, 08:33 AM
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yeah it WILL warp, but that can be worked out with hammer/dolly and helper (i'd imagine).

BUT, if you're throwing filler over it either way...I wouldn't worry about the shrinkage too much...as long as you don't get crazy with the welder and try to make a pool of molten metal.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-2004, 11:59 AM
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Firewall

Guys -
While we're on the subject of firewlls:
A while back I asked about battery mounts and didn't really get
what I needed although I did get some ideas.
What I would like to find is a trick battery mount (billet aluminum, chrome, etc.) to mount on the firewall.
If anyone knows about a stock shelf-type battery mount let me know because I could buy it from the dealer and have it chromed. Otherwise I could go through a junkyard and look for a mount that would work.
Any suggestions?
Charlie Smith
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-2004, 12:36 PM
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I know that the 55-59 Chevy Trucks have a shelf-type battery for firewall mounting. You can get them from http://www.brotherstrucks.com or any early model parts place.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-2004, 01:46 PM
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Re: Firewall

Quote:
Originally posted by Charles F. Smith
Guys -
While we're on the subject of firewlls:
A while back I asked about battery mounts and didn't really get
what I needed although I did get some ideas.
What I would like to find is a trick battery mount (billet aluminum, chrome, etc.) to mount on the firewall.
If anyone knows about a stock shelf-type battery mount let me know because I could buy it from the dealer and have it chromed. Otherwise I could go through a junkyard and look for a mount that would work.
Any suggestions?
Charlie Smith
As I probably replied to your previous request, get a battery tray from a 70s/80s GM car. Then simply make a couple of brackets of sheet metal - triangles w/ legs the length of the width of the battery tray and with their edges bent over to provide strength and bolting flange. The trays have a nifty lug bolted on to grab a series 24 battery with a single bolt and look great painted. powder coated or chromed. Have done all three.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2004, 01:40 AM
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At unstables request, Here goes!! (Not that y'all will like my opinion.) Perhaps I've mentioned this before, but I HATE bondo!!
The nasty junk is the very reason I first wanted to learn to shape metal and to finish it without the use of filler. I ain't sayin' you can learn it overnight, but it really isn't that hard once you figure out the few simple rules. Welding of any type caused shrinkage in the heat affected zone, which shows up further into to panel as warpage. Not to fret though, as the only problem spot is within the blued area, which is known as the heat affected zone, or HAZ. By simply placing a dolly on the backside, (with a crown very close to that of the panel being worked) and a very low crown hammer, or better yet, a slapper, on the face side, work the HAZ by stretching the metal back to it's original condition. On a firewall, a helper would be a must, as your arms aren't long enough to reach inside the car to hold the dolly while working the opposite side. Once the metal had stretched to point of meeting it's former condition, all warpage will be gone and there will be no need for filler. To fill the holes in the firewall, circles will need to be cut, or find a proper size plug of the right thickness and have at it. If you're lucky, and you probably will be, you can finish this off like a real pro. Learning to finish welds properly only takes a little time. There are no real tricks to it. It just takes patience. Something like filling firewall holes can be done just as fast by metalfinishing than screwing around with filler. Not to mention, it's far superior.

Randy Ferguson
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2004, 07:04 AM
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thanks Randy

I figured a helper would be necessary...just wasn't positive if you guys had some trick up your sleeve like an "arm extender tool".
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2004, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Randy Ferguson
At unstables request, Here goes!! (Not that y'all will like my opinion.) Perhaps I've mentioned this before, but I HATE bondo!!
The nasty junk is the very reason I first wanted to learn to shape metal and to finish it without the use of filler. I ain't sayin' you can learn it overnight, but it really isn't that hard once you figure out the few simple rules. Welding of any type caused shrinkage in the heat affected zone, which shows up further into to panel as warpage. Not to fret though, as the only problem spot is within the blued area, which is known as the heat affected zone, or HAZ. By simply placing a dolly on the backside, (with a crown very close to that of the panel being worked) and a very low crown hammer, or better yet, a slapper, on the face side, work the HAZ by stretching the metal back to it's original condition. On a firewall, a helper would be a must, as your arms aren't long enough to reach inside the car to hold the dolly while working the opposite side. Once the metal had stretched to point of meeting it's former condition, all warpage will be gone and there will be no need for filler. To fill the holes in the firewall, circles will need to be cut, or find a proper size plug of the right thickness and have at it. If you're lucky, and you probably will be, you can finish this off like a real pro. Learning to finish welds properly only takes a little time. There are no real tricks to it. It just takes patience. Something like filling firewall holes can be done just as fast by metalfinishing than screwing around with filler. Not to mention, it's far superior.

Randy Ferguson
Metalshaping & Kustom Paint
www.metalmeet.com
Yea and I would love to pitch like Sandy Koufax too but that ain't happening either!!

Keep beating on us to do better but allow us to Bondo occasionally until we approach your fantastic skill level.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2004, 10:48 AM
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Willy's,

that's precisely the approach I'm taking. I want to be able to finish metal perfectly without bondo...but it does take practice. I figure, if my attempts at finishing allow me to use less bondo...then I'm doing good.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2004, 11:58 AM
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I was amazed when American Rodder came on the air to see that Coddington's 'expert' builders use Bondo by the gallon. Perfect metal finishing is a great goal to shoot for but for us part time amateurs, won't probably ever get there. Bondo is a great compromise.
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