[39chevy]

Besides making a smooth firewall and welding it all in, how can I smooth mine up, dents, holes etc. (really not that bad) but you get the idea? Is there some kind of smooth compound or something to make it look smoother? I'm open for all suggestions, thanks, Dana

[mitmaks]

just fill all small imperfections with bondo after you welded everything in and grinded high spots/excess metal

[roadmouse]

There are no shortcuts here, clean, weld, fill and paint is the only way to go.

[39chevy]

Thanks for input.

[MARTINSR]

I have to say there is a "magic potion" for this sort of thing, polyester primer. For anything with lots of lines and stampings like your usual firewall, polyester primer is a God send.

Of course it doesn't change the welding and so on, but you don't have to spend so much time on the filler. All it needs to be is close and even course sand paper grit scratches can stay. A few coats of polyester primer will fill ANY scratches you could make and it is a heck of a lot easier to sand than filler.

By the way, personally I really like the look of a cherried out original firewall. I don't like a smooth one at all. It looks like the guy "cheated". Filling all the holes in an original firewall and making it smooth and detailed is a lot of work. I feel that time is very well spent. The smooth fire wall just looks like a short cut.

This is MY opinion, some may WANT that look and the work has nothing to do with it. I am just talking about what I "see" when I see one.

[Ron M]

Can you use polyester primer over epoxy primer and body filler for a filler primer prior to base coat application, or would you seal the body filler with epoxy and then use the polyester primer.?

Does polyester primer need a sealer prior to topcoat, or can you just wet sand it and shoot it?

What type or brand of polyester would you recommend and are they compatible with PPG - DBC?

Thanks in advance for the help.

[troy-curt]

If you want a really smooth on, take out the org. and weld in a smooth one.

It really depends on what kind of car it is and what look you are after.

Troy

Here is a straight and smooth one in my 69 Camaro.



Here is a cheeryed org. one in my 66 Elcamino driver.

[MARTINSR]

Ron "Can you use polyester primer over epoxy primer and body filler for a filler primer prior to base coat application, or would you seal the body filler with epoxy and then use the polyester primer.?"

Yes you can just shoot it over the epoxy and filler. It is the perfect thing to shoot over the filler.

"Does polyester primer need a sealer prior to topcoat, or can you just wet sand it and shoot it?"

It depends on the brand and model number. Evercoat has three poly primers but only one (Slick sand) has a recommendation to directly top coat. I am not sure why but that is what they recommend. PCL Polyprimer also can be top coated.

"What type or brand of polyester would you recommend and are they compatible with PPG - DBC?"

Once the polyester primer is fully cured and sanded any top coat could go over it. However, there is a Polyester primer in the PPG OMNI line and that would be where I would start. Call the PPG tech line and ask.

I have used Slick Sand and The PCL polyprimer with very good results. The polyprime has a recommendation for etch primer under it plus it is a little thinner and doesn't need quite as large a gun tip so it lays a little flatter.
Polyprimer doesn't replace all primers by any means but when you need it, man it is great.

Troy, please don't take my comments personal. That is a BEAUTIFUL engine compartment. And obviously it is not easier to put a nice flat firewall like that. I am just saying I prefer the stock appearing one.

It is like a pickup bed. I like the "mechanical" look of a super clean stock bed over one with all the spot welds moulded off and that sort of thing.

[troy-curt]

To me as a judge, it depends on what type car it is on.
The camaro is a full custom, and built for points.

The Elcamino is a cherryed org. firewall to look more like they should have when new.

Troy
__________________
If you don't make mistakes. your not doing anything.

69 ss rs full custom camaro 98 ISCA grandchampion
69 ss rs bb camaro wifes driver
66 Elcamino 350/all dz parts,ac,windows,loaded,my driver
69 ss chevelle bb conv.fresh frame off
26 T sedan street rod

[willys36@aol.com]

Just finished mine. I want my truck to look stock but be clean so I welded all the extraneous holes, cut 16ga patch panels and welded them in the bigger holes and ground everything smooth. Then I did the Bondo/sand routine like you would on bod sheet metal. Still has the character of the stock look but no the super slick look of a flat replacement panel.

[MARTINSR]

Troy, you are absulutly right, we are talking "theme". That's right, you have judged shows. I posted this over on the Hotrodders lounge, you should get a kick out of it. Hopefully you agree. But that is where opinion comes in.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


"Taste" or just plain WRONG?

Okay guys, don’t beat me up for this but I have to say it. Some things are just plain WRONG. Yes, “beauty is in the eye of the beholder” but some things are just plain WRONG. What I am talking about is, when someone does something to a car or truck that “misses the point”. Some times the whole thing is a miss; other times there is a reasonable trend in the work, and then, out of no where is some “after birth”.

An example would be a traditional 1950 Mercury custom with a billit aluminum steering wheel. The builder was going along just fine…chopped top….frenched head lights……53 Buick side trim….and then, BLAM, out of no where an after birth. The billit wheel just doesn’t belong on the car, PERIOD. It is not “taste”, it is wrong. How about the 1950 Chevy fastback that was at the last show I went to. It was chopped, sectioned, but had the stock grille and bumpers. That was a little strange, but it still worked. It kind of looked like a Chevy designer had did the sectioning and chopping. Yeah, a Chevy designer was just day dreaming and showed us what it would look like if it were left up to him. It looked great…then the after births. The dang thing had 2000 VW Bug head lamps and 2000 Corvette tail lamps! He RUINED the car. All that work in the sectioning and chopping, right down the drain. Now, how would the ’50 Chevy head lamps look on the 2000 Bug, like crap, that’s how. How would Kesey Hayes wires look on that 2000 Z06 Vette, like CRAP, that’s how. There are thousands of “traditional” rods out there with all the classic goodies; fenderless, black paint, tuck and roll, a white firewall, and then, a SBC with TPI and billit valve covers. I have even seen this with hoodless cars! Would one of Boyds cars look right with 20” billit wheels and a six duece set up?

We have all seen these cars, maybe one is in your garage. If it is I am sorry for being so hard on you.

You have the right to build a car anyway you want, this is true. But don’t put an afterbirth on you car and then cry because it didn’t win at the show. If you look at the big winners, the front pages of the rod magazines, they all follow a theme. EVERY NUT AND BOLT on the car, fits into the theme.

Is this “conforming”, yes, sort of. So what if it is, do you want a stand out car because it is pleasant to look at or because people want to laugh at it?

I’ll tell you what sets the cars apart, DETAIL, that’s what. If you want your car to be “special”, then make every nut and bolt follow a theme (ONE theme, any theme) and fill the car with detail.

Don’t make it WRONG, just to be different.

[troy-curt]

To be a judge you have to be very open minded. And not judge on what you like or dislike. I have see a lot of cars like you said with after birth on them. You have to look at what has been done and how hard it was to do and how good it was done.
Our hand book stresses, quantity, quality, and degree of difficulty,
and detail. When the cars get so good that they are all about the same point wise, then it comes down to detail. A team of judges will litterly pick a perfect car apart to determine a winner. Thats where detail comes in.

Of course some of the things you or I think look good or bad may be that the builder or owner thinks different. So I always try to focus on the workmanship.

One of my pet peeves are wheels and tires that protrude out side the wheel wells. And paint schemes that go against the grain, or not with the body lines.

I could go on and on, but my finger is tired.

Troy

__________________
If you don't make mistakes. your not doing anything.

69 ss rs full custom camaro 98 ISCA grandchampion
69 ss rs bb camaro wifes driver
66 Elcamino 350/all dz parts,ac,windows,loaded,my driver
69 ss chevelle bb conv.fresh frame off
26 T sedan street rod

[troy-curt]

Ahhh. I finely found a better picture of the fire wall in the 66. it also show some of the updates, like holly, HEI, disc brakes. and body color under hood instead of black.

Troy

[MARTINSR]

Originally posted by troy-curt
To be a judge you have to be very open minded. And not judge on what you like or dislike. I have see a lot of cars like you said with after birth on them. You have to look at what has been done and how hard it was to do and how good it was done.
Our hand book stresses, quantity, quality, and degree of difficulty,
and detail. When the cars get so good that they are all about the same point wise, then it comes down to detail. A team of judges will litterly pick a perfect car apart to determine a winner. Thats where detail comes in.

Of course some of the things you or I think look good or bad may be that the builder or owner thinks different. So I always try to focus on the workmanship.

One of my pet peeves are wheels and tires that protrude out side the wheel wells. And paint schemes that go against the grain, or not with the body lines.

I could go on and on, but my finger is tired.Troy

Troy, you make perfect sense. I am not talking about "my taste". Though I have never judged a show, I could look at things objectivly. I am talking about what "works" on a car. That would matter as much as the "quality of the work" wouldn't it? I have a little seven year old boy. I have NEVER pushed my "opinions" on what car is "cool" and what isn't. I make a big deal about of ANY nice low rider, four wheeler, ricer, (three styles that I didn't care much about) as much as a custom 50 Merc or Chopped 32 Ford. Because of this additude, I have actually begain to appreciate these other styles that prior I loathed. I can honestly look at a lowrider and totally respect the work and the craftsman ship as much as one of my favorite customs.
The "art car" at the bottom of the page for instance, I love it. I went to this "art car" meet, where you see things like cars covered with thousands of PEZ dispensers and that sort of thing. This 67ish Tempast was wild, and truly "art" in my opinion. It was very well done.

So here is the question for you.

Say you have two 68 Camaros, both SUPER well detailed, perfect cars. They are IDENTICAL in every way. Same Rally wheels, Hugger orange color, 302 Cross ram motor, everything identical. But one has a mural of a chicken, just a chicken, a Rhodeisland Red chicken on the hood. Not a cartoon, nothing like that, a perfect like like chicken. It is well done, but there is this mural covering the cowl induction hood.

Which car takes first and which takes second?

[unstable]

Ive never judged a car show...wouldn't want to. Seems obvious to me that alot of votes would go toward what the judge(s) sees as "cool" and not always the degree of difficulty of the customization etc.

If the degree of difficulty and uniqueness of the vehicle were truly a major contributing factor in these car shows, why do we keep seeing the same stuff over and over again? Same vehicles, same modifications, little quirks here and there. Everything has been done a thousand times.

What's hard about buying top of the line parts and installing them onto your car? There's kits for nearly everything you would ever want to modify. Front suspension, rear suspension, suicide doors, frenched pieces, lambo doors...the list goes on.

I seen something on TV about one of the big car shows, where the participants spend $100,000 to build their cars for the show. Some of these guys go overboard fabricating special parts that aren't even visible unless they take off the wheels. At this level, it's just ridiculous to say that one car is better than the other. I think it comes down to what the judges agree is the coolest best package.