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Old 03-09-2004, 09:41 AM
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finally started a gallery

Just two pics of a repair I did Saturday. Think I'm starting to get the hang of this welding thing, so I gotta show off.

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Old 03-09-2004, 12:40 PM
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looks good. I guess those nasty pictures of my truck gave you a little confidence to post some good work! j/k
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Old 03-09-2004, 12:58 PM
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Aw come on Unstable, your doors will look just fine when they get done. I still haven't figured out how some people can do this without using any filler at all. Wait till I post pics of the bed. That's where most of my work is gonna be.
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Old 03-09-2004, 06:47 PM
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Hi Busted Knuckles.
I'm hosting a regional MetalMeet at my shop on April 24th. I see you're in St Louis. You're only 2 1/2 hours west of me. We will be working on my '37 Olds project. Come on over and I'll teach you how to metalfinish without the use of body filler. Your repair job looks good. How did you weld it? Any welding process will cause the metal to shrink. Actually, metal starts to shrink at a lower temperature than you might think. This is what causes the warpage. To undo the warpage in a panel after welding, the metal must be stretched along the heat affected zone. This is the area within where the metal has turned blue. DO NOT work beyond that point, as you will only stretch the unaffected metal, causing even more problems.
Read this for additional info. It's a photo essay I wrote last week on the metalmeet forum. http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/viewtopic.?t=883
You may have to register first at www.metalmeet.com You're doing a great job on your panel. I think in no time you will be throwing away your body filler, although it works good for true surfacing damaged or missing areas to pull a pattern from. Only to be removed later, of course
Also, check here for more info concerning the regional meet http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=848
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Old 03-09-2004, 07:06 PM
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Busted K-
If you get a chance I'd definitely take Randy up on that. On the Metalmeet site there's a gentleman by the name of Wray who fabricates Jag replacement panels from scratch...the guy is phenomenol!

He lives about two hours away from me. I shot him an email and I'm hoping to pay him a visit this weekend. I'll push a broom or whatever is necessary to get some more insight on this metal working game
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Old 03-09-2004, 11:31 PM
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Hey unstable,
You won't be pushing a broom at Wray's. He'll have you working on Jag parts. The guy is amazing. He taught me most of what I know about shaping metal. I'll be there in June to paint an E-type for him. We'll have to meet up then.
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Old 03-10-2004, 06:50 AM
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Well Randy, I think I might have to take unstable's advice and accept your invite to the metalmeet. One small prob though. April 23 is my wife's birthday. This might be a tough one to get a kitchen pass for, but I'll see what I can do.
As far as my welding, I use a cheapo Craftsman mig/gas setup. Only has two power settings and a wire speed control. And I'm not very good at it. But then I've never taken a welding course or actually do some hands on with a pro. I made the patch a pretty tight fit, beveled the edges, and help it up with a magnet. Then I just gave it tiny little zaps with plenty of time in between, and it still warped (it is comforting for you to say that all welding warps).
I did manage to get it pretty straight with a little hammer off dolley work, but it's still far from paint ready. I'd read a little about shrinking, but still clueless as to exactly where to heat it.
So, I really need to attend your workshop. I'll definately try to be there.
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Old 03-10-2004, 11:32 AM
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I was reading one of Wray's articles. I found it quite enlightening.
He makes "slappers" out of...I think Leaf Springs. He bends them with an offset to clear the knuckles and grinds and polishes them.
So you end up with something that like of looks like a step.

Anyhow...he uses these in some hammer/dolly work. I was thinking, it's a great idea because the slapper is less specific where you hit. It spreads out the blow, so there's basically no chance of stretching the metal when you're trying to bring up a low spot.
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Old 03-10-2004, 11:57 AM
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Hi guys,
After welding your patch in, you MUST stretch the shrunken metal back out along the heat affected zone. This is area that turns blue around the weld seam. I usually do this by lightly hitting hammer on dolly blows, crushing the slightly proud weld bead left after removing the majority of it with a 1/16" cut-off wheel. This cold forges the weld and makes it stronger. I will then use a file to remove the remaining proud weld to the surface is very smooth, without removing any of the parent metal. You then take a wide tipped magic marker and color the entire area along the heat affected zone you've been working. using a body file, slide over it and only remove the ink from the surface. This will reveal the low spots. You can then use the homemade leaf srping slapper to work a combination of off and on dolly blows to bring up the low spots. This is an easy process to learn, but does take some practice with slapper and dolly work to perfect it. after going over the entire area with the slapper and dolly, slide over it again with the file to check you progress. You should notice that the spots of ink are now smaller than when you started. Now go back and work on bringing those smaller spots up even further. If the surface feels like it need raised more, you can hit on dolly with the slapper and lightly stretch the metal that way, which is much more controllable than with a hammer, because of the size of the contact area. A small contact area (hammer) stretches the metal fact in a very localized area, whereas the slapper has a much larger contact area, so it spreads out the force over a broader area, making the stretch much more controllable. This may take a few series of going back and forth from slapper and dolly to file, and you may have to re-ink the area from time to time, but eventually it will be perfectly smooth. . A shrinking disc is a wise investment for metalfinishing. I plan to post a photo essay here in the next couple days of the above process. I had a dent to fix on a '39 Ford last night and within that area wass a tear in the metal that had been brazed and leaded over. I have the dented, mangled, metal straightened out and ready to cut out the torn area. BK, If you can bring a part with you that you need help with, bring it along. If you can't make it on the 24th, you're always welcome to come another day. I like visitors!

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Old 03-10-2004, 12:26 PM
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another thing I was thinking about the slapper is if you are doing dolly-off work, and say you have a nice sized crater...

Slapping across the crater with the slapper would turn out to be so much easier than working around the edges with a hammer.
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Old 03-10-2004, 10:17 PM
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Hey unstable, You got it!!
greater contact area is the key to smooth body panels. Once you get used to using slappers, your hammers will mostly just collect dust.

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Old 03-11-2004, 08:40 AM
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I spoke with Wray yesterday and it's a go for Saturday...all day! I'm really excited with having the opportunity to learn from someone who knows so much...

Randy, I gather that you studied under Wray for some time?
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Old 03-11-2004, 09:35 AM
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Hey guys.. Thanks for the tip about the slappers. I polished up a piece of 3/8"X2" flat stock and used it with a comma shaped dolly and managed to get that area a lot smoother. Now I plan on making some different shaped slappers out of an old leaf spring. Those will have handles on them.
Randy, I don't think I'll be able to make the metalmeet this time, but you're close enough I could come out some other time. I'll contact you through metalmeet.com just before I'm ready, to see if you're not too busy. Thanks.
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Old 03-11-2004, 09:43 AM
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BK-
To my understanding, you actually use a portion of the leaf spring as the handle...I'm guessing you just cut off a chunk, heat it up to form the offset, grind it down on one side so you can get a grip on it...maybe even wrap it with some leather on the gripping side.

the other side gets ground down and polished up too.
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Old 03-11-2004, 07:52 PM
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slappers and such

Hi guys
I'll send some pictures of my slappers later. I need to build more, but have trouble finding the time. Too much time spent here I guess.
Unstable, I first became aware of Wray Schelin about 4 years ago on another group mailing list. I soon realized the vast amount of knowledge he had for . Having been interested in learning the craft for many years, I began trying to mimic what he taught and practiced. I first met him in 2001 in Huntsville, AL., the first time a group of 35 of us got together to pound out a car body in a week. We hit it off immediately, and have been good friends since. The main thing Wray will teach you is to get out in the shop and get busy with something, even if it's wrong. For a long time, I simply read all the posts on the mailing list and tried to put it use once in awhile. Then one day, it hit me. This is just like painting. Unless you do it everyday, it takes several years to get really good at it. Now, I walk out in my shop nearly every night and work on customers projects, putting what I've learned to practice. I'm still learning, and will be the day I die, but I keep getting better and faster everyday. It's not all that hard once you learn the basic rules. You will learn a ton on Saturday. Make sure to report back (with pictures) what you did. You may find yourself working on Jag front fender sections. No matter what you do though, you will be working with the best in the business.

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