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Old 02-25-2013, 09:27 PM
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First Paint Guns

Hi, need some opinions on paint guns. I want to get good guns that will last and want to practice with the guns that we will ultimately be using/spraying with. My husband doesn't want to spray the car, 1977 Corvette, as he ha no experiencing spraying. We are very hands on and I think that with practice he could learn and if he's good enough we could do the car....with some help. Even if we dont do the final paint on the car, we will be priming and blocking the car ourselves after stripping and adding custom quarter panels (flares). This is also not the last car I (we) plan on doing. I almost bought a Model A about two months ago but was not allowed to since we are not done with the Vette yet.
I have been reading very extensibly on guns and have pretty much narrowed it down to the Devilbiss Tekna Copper or Devilbiss Tenka Prolite for bc/cc. For primer the Devilbliss Finishline 4. I want to know if this sound like a good starting combination? Also which is better Tekna Copper or Tekna Prolite?
These would be our, husband's and I, first set of guns. The only issue is that our compressor is only a 60 gallon 3.5hp with 12.85cfm@ 90psi or 14.55cfm @40pi. I am not sure if it will be able to handle these guns. We would only be spraying practice parts, firewall and primer here at the house. Should I consider a different set of guns? Bigger compressor? I am in Miami so hot/humid is an everyday thing that is why I was leaning towards the Prolite. Opinions please!

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Old 02-26-2013, 09:38 PM
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The compressor could be a problem when priming/painting the whole car. Small parts not so much. The big thing is cfm usage with these guns the higher the number the bigger problem you will have with the compressor running non stop to keep up, then getting hot and building up water in the lines. Some of the high end guns run around 14cfm which would be a lot for your setup. I am not sure the cfm rating on the guns in question but that is what you should take a look at.
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:10 PM
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I have been happy with my Binks M1G gun with the 93P air nozzle and 1.4mm fluid tip. It only needs 10 scfm air at 18 psig. My 30 year old 3 HP compressor supports this.
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:21 PM
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depends on how much money ur willing to spend
i personall have a sata for base coat and a iwata for clear and a sharp for primer/sealer
but binks would be a good beginners gun/guns
bad idea to spray primer sealer base clear all through same gun
many opinons on what tips to use i use 1.3 for base 1.4 for clear and 1.4 for primer/ sealer

tip size is important when sparying as well as pressure pattern and distance
primer sealer guns to me dont matter as far as tip size
but applying primer filler wount be a good chance to see how a gun acts and seeing the patterns it makes as u adjust lower pressure bumper high preasure smoother as u move faster with higher pressure
i know u probly didnt ask for most this info but i throw it out there as food for thought
good luck
love painting as its what i do for a living
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:25 PM
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Finishline 4 says:
#1 Air Cap
Inlet Pressure: Conventional #1
Air Flow: 9.9 CFM @ 40 PSI inlet
OR
#3 Air Cap
Inlet Pressure: HVLP #3
Air Flow: 13 CFM @23 PSI inlet

Tekna Copper says:
Clear coats (22-30 PSI), solvent and waterborne basecoats (22-26 PSI)
Inlet Pressure: 16-30 PSI 1.1-2.0 BAR (Max 22 PSI for HVLP compliant areas)
Air Flow: 9-13 CFM 255-368 LPM

Tekna Prolite says:
HV30
1.4 - 1.6 bar 20-24psi
411 - 467 LPM 14.5 - 16.5 CFM

Since my compressor says 14.55 @ 40 psi...should work, right?

A friend is saying that for Primer any cheapy gun will do as I will block the car anyhow. Isn't the primer the base of everything?

He says he has a Sata that he will let me borrow but I prefer to have my own. Any opinions on the Tekna Copper over the Prolite?
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:35 PM
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Yeah I am definitely going to get 2 guns. I read enough to know that it's a no-no to do primer/sealer on the same gun as bc/cc. I did think that primer was sprayed with 1.8 tip. Is this not correct then?
I don't mind spending some money as I have found that investing in the beginning usually pays off in the end. The only thing is the Sata guns are much more and I since I don't do this for a living like you this is why I was looking at the Devilbiss. Have you used this brand before? Any opinions?
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Old 02-27-2013, 12:26 AM
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not to hyjack, but if you clean the guns after use, why would you need a different gun for primer/sealer and then base/clear?
dads always got 5-8 guns set up with different tips,
is the primer so cource that it polishes the needle/seat and wear them out.??
I never asked him why he used different guns, I figured it was to speed up the prossess..
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:23 PM
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When shooting SPI epoxy as a sealer, I do use the same gun for epoxy, base and clear just changing out the air cap for the clear. But the SPI epoxy is very thin not like PPG DPLF that I could not spray through my 1.4 tip, so I would need a bigger tip size if I were to spray the PPG epoxy. Tippically you should have a large tip when spraying a 2K urethane primer, so a two gun set up would be needed for that purpose.
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:07 PM
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I have a compressor similar in capacity to what the OP has and my Astro guns have worked well for what I do now..I do have a Sata for clear but wonder if I really need that gun. On tip size read your data sheets on the material you are using and then use the tip size for that material. The big deal is gun adjustment to get the paint to come out smooth and slick without runs..

Sam
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Annemarie View Post
Finishline 4 says:
#1 Air Cap
Inlet Pressure: Conventional #1
Air Flow: 9.9 CFM @ 40 PSI inlet
OR
#3 Air Cap
Inlet Pressure: HVLP #3
Air Flow: 13 CFM @23 PSI inlet

Tekna Copper says:
Clear coats (22-30 PSI), solvent and waterborne basecoats (22-26 PSI)
Inlet Pressure: 16-30 PSI 1.1-2.0 BAR (Max 22 PSI for HVLP compliant areas)
Air Flow: 9-13 CFM 255-368 LPM

Tekna Prolite says:
HV30
1.4 - 1.6 bar 20-24psi
411 - 467 LPM 14.5 - 16.5 CFM

Since my compressor says 14.55 @ 40 psi...should work, right?

A friend is saying that for Primer any cheapy gun will do as I will block the car anyhow. Isn't the primer the base of everything?

He says he has a Sata that he will let me borrow but I prefer to have my own. Any opinions on the Tekna Copper over the Prolite?
What you need to understand is that just because the compressor says it will flow a certain number of CFM doesn't mean that it will...I don't want to be a downer but compressor companies have been known to exaggerate their output....Now that being said, lets say that hypothetically the compressor does put out what they say it will, your compressor will still be running most of the time...this isn't good, as I believe Mr. 4Speed mentioned...heat condensation and water in the lines, let alone the wear and tear that heat build up brings on the compressor. If your planning on doing a complete, a bigger compressor would be on my wish list...especially if this is not going to be a one off paint job.

As far as the guns go, the Tekna's are good guns, you can't go wrong with them, the primer gun you choose will work fine as well.

Best of luck.

Ray
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:21 PM
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Re heat and condensation and water in the lines, again if your using an overheated compressor and this happens while you are painting, all it would take is for moisture to screw up one paint job and that would almost buy a compressor for the price of materials to redo the paint job...a bit of an exaggeration but I'm not that far off of the mark.

Ray
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:33 PM
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If you look at designs for air supply systems, you will see long runs to help cool the air which will help the moisture in the hot air condense out. And you will see the drops for hose hookups go up first, then back down, to prevent water from entering the drops. You will see drains to help remove any moisture that does accumulate, then finally filters to trap any oil/water that makes it all the way to the hose connection. A part of that system that seldom gets mentioned is that if the compressor is large enough to supply the required air running less often, less heat and moisture will enter the system in the first place. That's the part that Ray is talking about.

You can probably start with the compressor you have, since you will probably be priming smaller sections like door jambs, doors, fenders, deck lid and so forth. When you shoot color and clear you will be shooting it all and need to keep going - not much opportunity for the compressor to catch up and cool down.
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:53 PM
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That's exactly where I was going Bob...the larger the CFM output of the compressor, the less chance of over heating it with the motor continuously running and the compressor head constantly working. A compressor is not unlike a person...the harder they work, the hotter they get...and the more they sweat. In your case Annemarie, your going to be pushing the compressor close to it's maximum...assuming the manufacturer is right regarding the CFM output.

Ray
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneMoreTime View Post
I have a compressor similar in capacity to what the OP has and my Astro guns have worked well for what I do now..I do have a Sata for clear but wonder if I really need that gun. On tip size read your data sheets on the material you are using and then use the tip size for that material. The big deal is gun adjustment to get the paint to come out smooth and slick without runs..

Sam
A journeyman can fix his mistakes.
That is exactly why I ruled out the Sata guns...their expensive and don't want to be asking myself that same questions in a couple months.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
What you need to understand is that just because the compressor says it will flow a certain number of CFM doesn't mean that it will...I don't want to be a downer but compressor companies have been known to exaggerate their output....Now that being said, lets say that hypothetically the compressor does put out what they say it will, your compressor will still be running most of the time...this isn't good, as I believe Mr. 4Speed mentioned...heat condensation and water in the lines, let alone the wear and tear that heat build up brings on the compressor. If your planning on doing a complete, a bigger compressor would be on my wish list...especially if this is not going to be a one off paint job.

As far as the guns go, the Tekna's are good guns, you can't go wrong with them, the primer gun you choose will work fine as well.

Best of luck.

Ray

I won't be doing a complete job in my house. If we were to do one we would look to rent a booth to spray in. I think the compressor works pretty good as it keeps up with my sandblasting so hopefully it will work with the parts I plan on doing at home.

Any preference over the Tekna Copper vs the Prolite?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sedanbob View Post
If you look at designs for air supply systems, you will see long runs to help cool the air which will help the moisture in the hot air condense out. And you will see the drops for hose hookups go up first, then back down, to prevent water from entering the drops. You will see drains to help remove any moisture that does accumulate, then finally filters to trap any oil/water that makes it all the way to the hose connection. A part of that system that seldom gets mentioned is that if the compressor is large enough to supply the required air running less often, less heat and moisture will enter the system in the first place. That's the part that Ray is talking about.

You can probably start with the compressor you have, since you will probably be priming smaller sections like door jambs, doors, fenders, deck lid and so forth. When you shoot color and clear you will be shooting it all and need to keep going - not much opportunity for the compressor to catch up and cool down.
That is exactly what I will be starting with, small parts. The firewall is actually the first part we will be painting.

I had read somewhere regarding the air hose. The compressor has a filter right after it so I am planning on getting a new hose, to make sure it's a clean line, and then adding an additional filter 50 ft after...does this sound correct?

Off topic..saw your post on the new interior...beautiful!

Thanks guys!
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Old 02-27-2013, 09:19 PM
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Annemarie, it seems you are on top of it and I'm glad to hear that you won't be doing a complete with your compressor.

As far as the Tekna guns...I prefer the Copper... and for when I used it I was very happy with it...I have had minimal experience with the Prolite....but every painter is different.

P.S. I have several Sata's and I love them...I used to use them all the time for base coat...I live in Canada now and we've gone strictly to Water born...so I don't use them nearly as much we had to go with water born compatible guns like the Iwata's...for clear I like my Devilbus GTI...but like I said every painter is different.

Best to You.

Ray
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