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Old 04-21-2013, 08:47 PM
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First post! need help with body prep

im new here lots of great info. i just bought my dream car 1987 buick grand national. its a 23 year old car with original paint. i want to redo the paint. the paint is cracking in some areas. but zero rust and no dents. my question is should i take a razor to it and strip it down to metal.or can i avoid that with good results. im on a budget since all the money went towards car so i plan to do the body work primer myself. just ordered a devilbiss tekna with 1.3 & 1.4 tips for bc/cc and im going to get an astro lvlp 1.8 tip for primer. if i take it down to metal what are the steps as far as primers i know theres differet kind high build, epoxy ect. im thinking of using SPI poducts is there any cheaper priced primer that is just a good quality? by the way i never painted before. but plan to get in the field or aleast keep painting as a hobby,, one more thing if i decide to remove the trims guards on the middle of the doors how should i fill the holes.
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Old 04-21-2013, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpt87gn View Post
im new here lots of great info. i just bought my dream car 1987 buick grand national. its a 23 year old car with original paint. i want to redo the paint. the paint is cracking in some areas. but zero rust and no dents. my question is should i take a razor to it and strip it down to metal.or can i avoid that with good results. im on a budget since all the money went towards car so i plan to do the body work primer myself. just ordered a devilbiss tekna with 1.3 & 1.4 tips for bc/cc and im going to get an astro lvlp 1.8 tip for primer. if i take it down to metal what are the steps as far as primers i know theres differet kind high build, epoxy ect. im thinking of using SPI poducts is there any cheaper priced primer that is just a good quality? by the way i never painted before. but plan to get in the field or aleast keep painting as a hobby,, one more thing if i decide to remove the trims guards on the middle of the doors how should i fill the holes.
First off, welcome aboard...and you do have a beautiful car, one with out dents, makes it even all the more beautiful. The car is coming to be 37 years old, I would strip the car, if you can remove the paint with a razor blade, do it, take it down to bare metal. If your already planning on using SPI, in my opinion, after the old paint is off the vehicle, use SPI's Epoxy primer in the black shade...remove door handles, chrome etc. Apply a minimum of 2 coats of Black SPI epoxy, allow each coat to flash before putting on another coat. Let the paint cure. Start blocking the primer, you say the car is straight and rust free, use a 320 git paper on a block with guide coat...one panel at a time. When the panel with primer has been blocked, wet it down, look down the side to make sure it's straight by looking at the reflection. When it has been completely sanded, go over it again with 600 wet paper, make sure all panels are straight and paint it. No need for 2k as SPI Epoxy sands great, is there anything better and or cheaper, I haven't come a cross anything.

Trim guards, leave them on, problem solved, leave it as original as you can, it's a great car.

Hope this helps, if you need any more information, let me know and I'll try and help.

Ray
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:29 PM
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Thanks for the response . I'm thinking of investing in a good DA sander can most of it be sanded with a DA or what should be sanded by hand I'm ordering a 7 piece set of dara-blocks
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:34 PM
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Is there a better method to strip down to metal at home besides media blasting
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:30 PM
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Investing in a DA is never a bad Idea, investing in a quality DA is a great idea. For the money, the best DA I have seen and own several are from 3M (believe it or not), they are the same design as Dynabrayde...excellent sander, 3M' part number is..I hope I'm right..I happened to have the box in front of me part #20327, smooth, quiet and a great pattern.

Hope this helps bud.

Ray
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Old 04-22-2013, 05:30 AM
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On a GN the most important thing to do is remove the 1/4 glass dont even try to work around them...
chemical strip at home with Jassco or aircraft stripper both are from KleenStrip read up on it first.....One panel at a time...
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Old 04-22-2013, 06:51 AM
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Stripping a car is never an easy job, no matter how you tackle it. Mike has an excellent suggestion regarding aircraft stripper, (I've never used Jassco so can't comment) and his comment about reading up on it is important as well...the stuff is caustic, messy and works well. If you decide to go the stripper route, your still going to need a DA to do the final stripping on your car. There are several tricks to using stripper, like using masking tape on seams and door gaps...that way you don't need to try and clean up half stripped paint our of areas that you can't reach unless you take the car a part (which does have its advantages as well) and there's other tips as well.

Ray
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:01 AM
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my SS is a 1986 and is 27 years old.. typo patrol..lol
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:20 AM
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my SS is a 1986 and is 27 years old.. typo patrol..lol
It took me a while...I re read your post and I couldn't find a typo???...then I remembered my post....LOL....thanks...and sorry to the OP...it was pretty late last night and my math skills are usually a tad sharper than that...thanks for pointing that out.

To the OP, your car is 26 years old...not that 30 something I wrote down...LOL

Ray
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:31 AM
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Your right on the math but you get the idea. That's for the great info guys my next ? Was what Da do you recommend besides the 2 top brands that are expensive. 69 widetrack took care of that. Can anybody shed some light on the different color of primers. If I don't go with the black paint job . I'm going with an Orion silver. With SPI clear
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by cpt87gn View Post
Thanks for the response . I'm thinking of investing in a good DA sander can most of it be sanded with a DA or what should be sanded by hand I'm ordering a 7 piece set of dara-blocks
The Dura Blocks are great...if when you get them they're straight...I've heard of guys that have purchased the same set up that your thinking of and when they get them, the don't have a real straight edge. Just saying...be aware. All of my blocks are home made from aluminum, with a machined surface so I know they're straight...but, I use mine almost every day. May look at what Hutchins has to offer in blocks and long boards...here is a URL

Model 5502

This is what my long boards and shorter blocks are modeled after...I just made the base out of thicker aluminum and I can machine them whenever they start to loose their straight edge.

Hope this helps.

Ray
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpt87gn View Post
Your right on the math but you get the idea. That's for the great info guys my next ? Was what Da do you recommend besides the 2 top brands that are expensive. 69 widetrack took care of that. Can anybody shed some light on the different color of primers. If I don't go with the black paint job . I'm going with an Orion silver. With SPI clear
Sure, if your going to go with the Orion Silver, that would mean stripping door jambs, trunk, under hood etc...but, as I alluded that may not be a bad idea to get rid of all the old paint...just that in all probability, it's more than twice the work.

Different colored primers have been around for years, when a "High Solids" 2 part primer first came out, I think all you could get it in was a color called Buff...or Yellow. I believe it was Dupont that coined the phrase Value Shade, this was a line of primers and sealers that came in different shades of, from white to black to all the shades of grey in between. There reasoning was that colors had a value...for example a dark blue, may have a value of 7 which in Dupont's terms, would be a very dark grey or black primer...a medium blue may have a color value of 3 or 4 and the primer would be a medium gray. This was done for 2 main reasons...The Number one reason was for coverage...With a substrate underneath the paint having the same "Value" it was found that often the color would cover in 2 coats instead of 3 or 4...so, you needed less paint. The second reason was that if you had a rock chip on your new black paint job and the primer underneath was "Buff"...it would really show...if your primer was dark grey or black, it wouldn't be nearly as noticeable....and this does work...it has been proven, other company's have used it or variations there of.

In your case, if I'm correct Orion is a fairly light silver...For best coverage, order a light grey primer...see how that works. Now I'm going to blow all the stuff I told you out of the water...I prime everything in black primer. The reason for that is, I don't do many Daily Drivers...so I want my jobs to be really straight...after I block a panel, I wet it down with wax and grease remover, look at the reflection and if there are any imperfections, a black primer (as black paint) will show every one of them. This way I can more easily see it, so I can fix it, before I paint it.

Hope this helps and explains different shades of primers.

Glad to hear that your top coat is SPI clear...they do make a killer black base coat as well.

Ray
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Old 04-25-2013, 06:05 AM
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I just bought a couple gallons of SPI black for a color change job I'm doing.I went with SPI SS black ,this way I have the option of clearing so when I do the jambs there wont be any clear but when I paint the body I'll sand down the black and shoot a couple coats of clear ....then I'll cut and buff the clear...when done right you cant tell SS solid colors from BC/CC,doing the jambs in SS saves a ton of paint time and money in materials...The only reason I'm clearing the outside is for a little added depth and the extra UV protection ,this paint job should last 20 yrs if its takin care of....
Doing a color change right is a lot of work...and in my opinion black is THE color for a GN ....Didnt the GN's only come in black and white??? I also believe the car would be worth more if you kept it the original color....
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Old 05-12-2013, 08:43 PM
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help with single stage vs base coat clear coat

I'm going to use all spi products to do my 1987 Buick grand national. I'm torn between. single stage or base coat clear coat. I was sure I was going to do BC/cc because I thought SS was the cheap way to go .but i been reading up on black paint jobs and now I'm on the fence now, can someone give there opinion or advice ECT. I'm paying someone to do it. I'll strip it car to bare metal myself . The car will not be a daily driver and I want it to last. Thanks in advanced .. i see that on many restoration jobs the hood,deck lid and other parts get painted off of the car. wondering if i should have my body shop guy do it that way
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Old 05-13-2013, 06:28 AM
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I'm doing a Black job right now that been takin completely apart ,painted then put back together....Its super expensive !!! because of all the extra labor...
I'm using SS then sanding and clearing...The SS is a high quality urathane just like the clear....The whole reason I'm using SS is so I can sand the color before I clear, most people cant see the difference so its not really worth it but for those that can see ,it is worth it but its expensive...just a SS black or BC/CC should be fine unless you have a pro's eye for detail...
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