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First Spray gun?

22K views 227 replies 15 participants last post by  carolinacustoms 
#1 ·
Hi

I am completely new to the idea of spray painting. I was looking to paint a few panels on my car. To be specific the fenders and the bumper.

I have been reading a lot about compressors and spray guns but I am having a difficult time making a final decision. I was wondering if someone could help.

My two disadvantages are compressor size and budget. I have a 11 gallon compressor rated at 5.5 cfm @ 40 psi and 4.6 cfm @ 90 psi.

I was wondering if someone could suggest a small spray gun for the job that would work with the compressor. I plan on doing one panel at a time so I am not too worried about compressor size being big enough to do all panels in one.

Also I am not looking to get something too high quality, something mid range. Thanks in advance.
 
#86 ·
Makes sense to me now.

Ill dig into the bumper today. I should be receiving the other fender today as well.

If that is coated I will go ahead and do the wet sanding with 600 grit. Is it okay if I sand by hand with the 600 grit. I found it more flexible to do it with the hand rather than the block. Or do you think I should stick with the block?

Also the guide coat, can that be purchased at any auto store? Is it available at a store like Menards also?
 
#87 ·
As far as hand wet sanding the other fender goes, that's fine, as long as you use the palm of your hand...I think we virtually have the finger sanding worked right out of you...and that's a good thing. If you do sand through to bare metal, those areas will need to be spot primed.

Guide coat...at Menard's...I am from Canada, we don't have a Menard's...we just got Diet Coke, I don't think Menard's is thinking of an expansion to Canada no matter how much we want guide coat...LOL. If they sell Lacquer Primer in an aerosol can, then Menard's has has guide coat. If they have it in Red or Red Oxide...that would be better. The reason I suggested lacquer primer in an aerosol can is because it dries quickly, doesn't clog sand paper that fast and Red will work for the Black E Coat and the the Gray Epoxy primer that you will be putting on later. Also the price, 3M makes a guide coat which works great but it's way to expensive for what your doing...Lacquer primer was probably the first guide coat made. If they don't have lacquer primer in anaerosol, an automotive store may be where you need to go.

When you sand your bumper with the Scotch Brite pad...no need to guide coat it...it's plastic and your not going to straighten any high or low spots...just rough it up with the pad and warm soapy water.

Now seriously...after I fell asleep at the computer last night I woke up and had this vision of your "Wax and Grease" remover being "Wax and Tar Remover"...is this just in head or do you in fact have Wax and Tar remover?

Also, what brand of base coat are you planning on using...we are going to need to figure out the color. I know you have a code, but, many codes have numerous formulas so it's going to be a trip down to the paint store with either the car or a fender or something with the color of the vehicle on it. They need to check the color to the variant chips that they should have at their location. After we get the paint, we are going to need reducer...maybe if you slip the guy at the paint store $5 or $10 over and above the cost of the paint, he will mix up a pint of base, throw it in a quart can and add the reducer for you...it would save you buying a gallon of reducer.

If you have more questions, ask away.

Ray
 
#88 ·
Haha I just noticed the Ontario location, ooops. Lol

Thanks for the info on the guide coat. I will look it up in the stores.

As for the dream you had, low and behold it is reality. I do have wax and tar remover. The reason I bought it was because it said on the bottle that it removes wax, tar, grease along with a few other things for cars. Is that a big no no? Is wax and grease remover specifically something completely different?

As for the base coat I don't really have much of an idea. I can take my car down to the store and do what you suggested.
 
#90 ·
I have no idea what made me think of wax and tar remover but, I'm glad I did and not knowing what's inside it...I really can't recommend it...the wax and grease removers used for painting cars is designed for that, pre-cleaning for painting cars. For now, wash the new fender with soap and water and then start sanding...we will need to get some proper pre-cleaner before painting. I don't want you to go through a huge expense...do you know of any body shop near by that if you walked up to them with an empty Windex spray bottle, they might fill it half way for a few dollars? If nothing else SPI sells wax and Grease remover for $27.65 a gallon...but a gallon is a lot of product...I just wish I had my premonition earlier, it could have been ordered with the primer and clear.

I'm sorry I didn't notice it sooner, but, glad I noticed it now.

When it comes to solvent born base coat, when looking at any manufacturer's top of the line product, they are all pretty much equal...a few differences in the way they smell, one might be a little easier to apply depending on the color but, over all very similar. Out of the majors, PPG, Dupont, Sikkens and BASF...PPG's Deltron is probably the most cost effective, they have variant chips, color match is usually close to the chip color (color match in metallic's like silver is often more the painter than it is the code)...but not to worry, we are going to get that all sorted out. If you have a PPG jobber (paint store) close by, that's great...if not, when you chose any brand, make sure that they have variant chips that they can compare to the actual color on your car...choose that code and the rest will be up to you and I.

Before you go to check out the code for your your color...I will give you a list of things to look for and look at and what to do when picking the right chip and code for your car.

I am not trying to confuse you..it's happening all by itself...LOL...it will all make sense in a couple of days. Now do you understand why I said early on that I don't want to give you information overload?...LOL

Ray
 
#91 ·
Oh yeah all that information would have been like a swarm of bees in my head. Step by step makes it so much easier. Also I had no clue how involved the process would really be. In my hea it was a few steps and bam everything is painted. How naive of me, LOL

I don't really know of any body shops that I can go up to but I can call and ask around. No harm in asking. Also I can try to go to auto stores to see if they have something specific for pre painting cleaning. If I do find something I will post it before I buy it. Thanks for the catch, better now than later.

As for color, it does sound confusing but that is mostly because I have no knowledge on the subject. But like everything else I am sure I will grasp it. I will search to see if the store you mentioned is located near me. If not I will try to see what stores are located near me. And I will let you know before I go so you can let me know of the list.
 
#92 ·
Again, I apologize for not catching it sooner...but glad I did eventually catch it...Chances are that everything would be Okay but...if something went wrong, no matter how many times we went through the procedure, we may have never found out what caused a problem.

So true, I liken the W & G situation like sex...if you never ask, your never going to get it and all they can say is no...LOL...even offer to give the guy a couple of dollars, like $5.00 for a half a Windex bottle of W & G remover...that way it will be in a spray bottle and you only need to spray it on and wipe it of compared to using a towel to put it on and a towel to take it off.

I'm just giving you the heads up on color...that time is coming soon and I'm just getting you prepared. When the time comes, I will give you a list of things to do and look for...go through the list with the guy at the paint store and you will be fine....he should know the things I will have on the list and that will make it easier.

Ray
 
#93 ·
Haha I agree, ask and you shall receive or not but at least you asked lol

I called a few shops one of them agreed to give me some so I will go over there tomorrow.

I received the second fender. I have gotten to open it and test it for e-coating yet because I am scuffing the bumper. I am going to try to finish the bumper by tonight but I am not sure if I will be able.

Tomorrow I should be getting the primer and the clear coat. So I will update you with those pictures and the pictures of the bumper. And for the base color, that sounds like a good plan. Once again thanks for the help and advice!
 
#94 ·
I'm just happy to help...This time when you check for E-Coat (and I'm confident it will be E-Coated), the sanding process will be a lot faster...you are learning and with knowledge the speed increases. What you have that I appreciate is attitude and that attitude goes a long way in people being willing to help. I thank you for that.

If you get a chance, check out paint suppliers tomorrow...some of these places don't take kindly to people coming in off the street, don't know why but they are out there, they possibly feel that they are above the common man and rely on the body shops to keep them going. If and when you find one or several, let me know which manufacturer's your looking at and we can discuss pros and cons from each. The way to check color is the same, the minor difference an be the way it goes on and some have a better track record with metallic's than others.

Good job my friend and I look forward to tomorrow.

Ray
 
#96 ·
I still have about half of the bumper left to scuff. It is more time consuming than I had anticipated. How do you sand in body shops, by hand or a sander?

I searched for stores that sell automotive paint and one that came up a lot and is close to me was this:
Sherwin-Williams | Automotive Finishes | Home

Besides that a lot of them had body shops listed. I will try to find more stores.
I will get the primer today but I wont be able to have it as they leave it in the info office if I am not home and they close at 6.
 
#97 ·
From what I understand...your having the primer shipped to your work address? That's fine...just wasn't clear.

Yes, see if there are others, nothing wrong with SW and I know they make a good product...but, if you have a couple...it will be easier get one of them to reduce the paint for you...what I mean is that if you go to SW and say something like....."Oh, by the way, how would you charge for putting it in a quart can and reducing it...a guy from PPG said it would cost about $10.00"...(I'm the guy from PPG...LOL...so your not lying...I was a PPG Rep) and that could save you $50.00 or more for not buying a full gallon of reducer.

Most guys in body shops sand with a machine...in a lot of the good shops, it's like 4 year old kindergarten when you start...in kindergarten, you get crayons and pencils...when you learn to use them properly...you get a pen....in good shops, they teach you the basics before they give you machinery to sand. Then when you get more proficient at what you do...you can work at a real good restoration shop. There they take away all your air sanding tools and make you do it all by hand, it goes full circle...nothing beats a good technician that can use hand tools to get a vehicle straight...(The last sentence was my opinion only...others may have their's...LOL)

Hope this helps and explains

Ray
 
#98 ·
Actually I have it shipped to my home. But I live in an apartment complex so if I am not home the information office for the apt complex signs it and takes it for me. I usually get back from work around 5:45 and they close at 6. But today I have to go get the W&G so probably will be back after 6. Didn't know if you wanted the long explanation but you got it! Lol

Okay I understand now. It takes me some time to get finished but I know thats mostly because of my lack of experience also, so I was just wondering.

As for the paint stores I found a few more that carry PPG. I still need to call to make sure. When I do I will let you know.

I was wondering just for my understanding what is the difference between base clear and single stage. And how can you tell which car needs which?
 
#99 ·
The where your product gets delivered, I know it doesn't matter, I just tried to understand and wasn't sure...not a big deal, I get it now.

It's a good idea to call a few, make sure that they will sell to you. You can get a price for a pint of base coat, when it's reduced. you will have a quart of sprayable material...that should be enough especially when your going to have a gray primer on one fender and the bumper. Also, it may be a good idea as well to see if they will reduce it for you...some are going to want to sell you a gallon of reducer when you only need a pint.

The difference between base clear and single stage is...base clear requires that you apply the color first, then clear coat it, the clear has an active ingrediant called hardner which makes the clear coat stronger and helps protect the the color or base coat. Single stage is a paint where you add the hardner to the color and spray it...if the color is a metallic, single stage metallic paints don't usually have a high gloss and don't have the durability of a base clear product. The way you can tell if a vehicle is a base clear or a single stage is if you sand a base clear paint job, the sanding dust will be white...sand a single stage and the sanding dust will be the color of the paint...if a vehicle is white, it can be difficult to tell if it's base clear or single stage. The way I look at it, if somebody is going to paint a vehicle white, they don't care much about the vehicle in the first place so it doesn't matter what king of paint they use...LOL...I hate white...hardest color to paint and when your done...it's white.

That's the basic difference, hope this explains.

Ray
 
#100 ·
No that explains it pretty good. Now at least I know the basic difference between the two. Haha your hatred for white is obvious. But then would that make black the easiest to paint?

So good news I got some W&G remover from an auto body store. The guy gave it to me for free so that was nice. I actually got in home time to go the info office. But unfortunately they were closed early today. I will get the packages tomorrow.

Scuffing is still going on. I think I should be able to get the whole thing done tonight and then tomorrow I will just have to go over a few spots that I missed.
 
#101 ·
I will say my friend...I admire your dexterity in following instructions, being persistent, using your natural talent to scrounge up material at a better price than is normally possible (did you go there with an Empty Windex bottle...seriously, because the spray makes the whole Wax and Grease remover experience easier) and just the fact that even after several days of tedious work, your attitude is still stellar.

If you can get the panels sanded tonight, clean up a few areas tomorrow, we will be ready for Primer very soon...that's when it gets to be a little more fun...and the experience you get from spraying primer will benefit you when you go to apply the color and the clear coat. When you start applying the primer, there will be certain things I will be asking you to pay attention too and watch for. I'm going to be asking you to apply the primer the same way I'm going to be asking you to apply the paint.

Have you made any more headway in locating the base coat...I was thinking, it may benefit you to use the fact that you are being tutored by an ex PPG Rep...(not that my name would mean anything in the US but, just the fact that someone with a history with PPG is volunteering time, might help get you in the door, get a better price and even better treatment from the staff at the store...I know, they should treat everyone equally, unfortunately, as in many other walks of life, that doesn't happen and from experience I know it doesn't happen at paint stores, especially at the retail level.

I remember walking into a Dupont supplier's store when I was first Repping PPG (a customer that I was doing work for on the side had started the project with Dupont, ran out of material so I thought I would continue with Dupont...I knew the product as I had been a Dupont Rep prior to becoming a PPG Rep) in the location I'm at now. They didn't know me from Adam and I was treated as though I was mentally challenged. I listened intently and when the arrogant young fellow behind the counter made a technical error in the use of the product. I gently, but firmly explained how in fact the product should be used, let him know that I had been a Rep for Dupont in the past, where I had been a Rep, dropped the name of a senior member of the Dupont management team that I new he would be familiar with...and I was treated with much more respect...as everyone should be. Just a thought, and when you go there to get the right color, by the questions your going to be asking and how you look at the color chip is going to indicate that you are talking to someone that has painted a car or two.

Yes, Black is the easiest color to paint. The problem with painting Black is that any imperfection you have in the substrate will show up in the top coat, prep is extremely important when spraying a Black vehicle, but, when your actually putting it on, you can tell exactly where your going and where you've been and what the finish is going to look like. White on the other hand, will hide the sins of the devil in prep work but, when you paint White, you can't see where your going or where you've been and I call it going snow blind...I hate White.

So there you go, a little more trivia, a little more information that I hope helps...if your interested in using the fact that I'm giving you a hand, let me know and we start getting down to what you need to say.

Ray
 
#102 ·
Well thanks, I appreciate it. Trivia is always good. It is nice to know the reason behind things instead of doing it blindly. Now I know!

I will keep the paint tips in mind. Sucks it has to be that way but I guess it is what it is.

Despite my best efforts I was not able to fully finish the scuffing but I am very close. Tomorrow I will be done for certain. Here are some progress pics though:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/uiwiaeqwdyroqs1/vPsrVHwATA

Let me know if there is something you see that I did wrong or if it is going okay.

Also for the primer I had read some time back that you need a spray gun with a 1.7 tip or maybe higher. The gun I looked at home depot that fits my compressor range is 1.4 tip. Here is the gun btw:

Husky Gravity Feed HVLP Spray Gun-H4840GHVSG at The Home Depot

So should I also look for another gun?
 
#103 ·
To answer your gun question...No...SPI Epoxy sprays well with a 1.4 gun...you do not need to purchase a gun with a bigger tip. That's some more good news.

Great to hear that you'll finish up tomorrow...as soon as you get the primer, turn it upside down...I will remind you every day to keep turning it so that when you go to stir it, it won't take forever.

I'm in the house...I'll check the pictures in the morning from my other computer and post any recommendations.

Ray
 
#104 ·
Yes definitely good news. Makes me even happier.

I will get it today and will turn it upside down. Also I forgot to answer your question earlier but I did get it an empty windex bottle so that should make my life even easier.

Today in my lunch break I will call the paint stores and ask if they will sell to me and reduce it for me.

Thanks!
 
#105 ·
Sorry, still can't download the pictures...will keep trying.

Just a question...which clear did SPI send you?...the 4000 clear or the 4100 VOC compliant clear. The reason I ask is because I don't know where you live...and if you live in a State that has laws that insist VOC Compliant products...quality solvent based base coats would be almost impossible to get....the low VOC solvent based Economy brand base coats are less lightly to match the color of your car, have poor metallic control and don't cover as well...if you can let me know where you live...we can figure out which way to go.

I'll keep trying to download the pictures.

Ray
 
#106 ·
Oh! What does it show you? Does it not load the link at all or does it grey out the pictures like before? Let me know and I will try to do something different.

They sent me the 4000 clear because they said Illinois is not one of the states that requires VOC compliance.
So in this case would quality base coats be easy to get from local retailers?
 
#108 ·
Great!

That is odd. I wonder why it is doing that.
Lets try something then. Here is the link again, click on it and see if you can view them now:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/uiwiaeqwdyroqs1/vPsrVHwATA

If the link still does not work. Do the following:
In the right corner of my post it should say "aykhan90's Photo Album". If you clock on that it will take you to another page with photos on it and you should see the bumper pictures there.

Hopefully one of these options works, if not I will try to do it another way.
 
#109 ·
Got it my friend...and I will say, if you keep on doing things this way..well...I don't know how to say this but...I'm going to get you on full time...LOL....good job.

Tonight, we need to concentrate on making sure that all those hard to get at areas are scuffed...there is a product out there for plastic bumpers called adhesion promoter, I have used it on some covers, and I haven't used it. As long as all the mold release is gone and the plastic has been properly roughed up, Epoxy primer will adhere to that cover. Speaking of Epoxy primer, when you get home tonight, don't forget to turn it over, let it sit turned over until tomorrow, then turn it over again. As mentioned, this will save you time stirring the product before you mix it, give it the 1/2 hour of induction time and spray it.

You are now well on your way...later when you have time, we need to go over the list of things to do and what else you need to get and how to get these products at a reasonable price...I can see the light at the end of the tunnel my friend and with the fine job your doing, I know it's not a train...LOL

Excellent work...keep up the attitude and we will get that car being the envy of your piers...not only that but, when you continue visiting this site or others, you will have a greater understanding of what people are talking about.

Ray
 
#110 ·
Hahaha great! So far things seem to be going good. I will say I am a little nervous about when it is time to spray the primer on! But gotta take it step at a time.

And though I am at best a novice, my knowledge regarding this subject has increased far more than I had imagined. Obviously thanks to your help!

Yes after work I have to scuff up the areas I missed and as you mentioned those hard to reach areas. If I am able to get all of those areas satisfactorily do you think I should still try to get the adhesion promoter or it won't be necessary?

So update on the paint stores. I called the stores that carried PPG, unfortunately none of them selll automotive paint. I called a few stores that carry Sikkens as well and same deal. One of the stores suggested calling body shops to ask about their paint suppliers.

The last store I called was SW. They do carry automotive paint and the person on the phone told me that they would sell them in pint quantity. I asked whether they can mix the reducer for me which they do not do. They say I would have to mix it myself. Then I asked what size the reducer comes in. To which she said the reducers at the store are in quart sizes.

Now do you think I should just go with SW or try to contact body shops and ask for there paint suppliers. Or would body shops be willing to sell me the paint themselves?
 
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