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Old 09-18-2013, 04:26 PM
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First Spray gun?

Hi

I am completely new to the idea of spray painting. I was looking to paint a few panels on my car. To be specific the fenders and the bumper.

I have been reading a lot about compressors and spray guns but I am having a difficult time making a final decision. I was wondering if someone could help.

My two disadvantages are compressor size and budget. I have a 11 gallon compressor rated at 5.5 cfm @ 40 psi and 4.6 cfm @ 90 psi.

I was wondering if someone could suggest a small spray gun for the job that would work with the compressor. I plan on doing one panel at a time so I am not too worried about compressor size being big enough to do all panels in one.

Also I am not looking to get something too high quality, something mid range. Thanks in advance.

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Old 09-18-2013, 04:39 PM
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First of all, welcome to the site...and you probably made a wise choice in asking before you purchased. Unfortunately virtually every gun will require more CFM than your compressor puts out....and that's if the compressor manufacturer isn't lying to you about CFM output (most compressor manufacturer's embellish the CFM output). You could purchase a small Harbor Freight touch up gun...they are inexpensive, don't hold much paint and if your going to be spraying one panel at a time, letting your compressor cool down between panels, you might get away with it.

Before you purchase a touch up gun, check to see if the CFM requirements can be handled by your compressor...if it requires 6 or 7 CFM, the compressor will run continuously and you will have a drop in air pressure at the gun. If your spraying a solid color, it's not that big a deal...if your color is a metallic, the color will change as the pressure drops.

I hope this helps, if you need more information, let me know, I'll try and explain further.

Ray
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Old 09-18-2013, 04:46 PM
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Thank you for your reply.

I did realize that my compressor is very small in size. That is one of the biggest issues. I can shell out some money on a compressor or a good gun, but not both.

I intend on painting panel at a time as I said. And I am not painting any metallic colors. Just solid silver.

I was reading that the best choices are mostly gravity fed HVLP guns but as you said the compressor is too small for most guns. In that case should I go for a LVLP gun to fit my compressor range? Or just try a relatively cheap gun from harbor freight or home depot that falls somewhere close to the rating?
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Old 09-18-2013, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aykhan90 View Post
Thank you for your reply.

I did realize that my compressor is very small in size. That is one of the biggest issues. I can shell out some money on a compressor or a good gun, but not both.

I intend on painting panel at a time as I said. And I am not painting any metallic colors. Just solid silver.

I was reading that the best choices are mostly gravity fed HVLP guns but as you said the compressor is too small for most guns. In that case should I go for a LVLP gun to fit my compressor range? Or just try a relatively cheap gun from harbor freight or home depot that falls somewhere close to the rating?
id rather have a bigger compressor and a crappy gun than an awesome gun that i cant use because my compressor isnt up to par. and btw ive painted with a harbor frieght purple gun and it was ok and the truck came out looking pretty good just my .02
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Old 09-18-2013, 05:00 PM
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A lot depends on how fussy you are...a compressor big enough to handle a full size paint gun will usually cost more than a quality gun...If budget is a concern, perhaps even try a small siphon feed touch up gun from Harbor freight...they are cheap (under $30.00..I think) and you may just get lucky and be able to complete a panel.

I'm sorry, I don't know what a solid silver is...silver's in the automotive paint world are mostly metallic's...are you using automotive paint? If so, what kind...brand...ie Acrylic Enamel, base clear?

Ray
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Old 09-18-2013, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
A lot depends on how fussy you are...a compressor big enough to handle a full size paint gun will usually cost more than a quality gun...If budget is a concern, perhaps even try a small siphon feed touch up gun from Harbor freight...they are cheap (under $30.00..I think) and you may just get lucky and be able to complete a panel.

I'm sorry, I don't know what a solid silver is...silver's in the automotive paint world are mostly metallic's...are you using automotive paint? If so, what kind...brand...ie Acrylic Enamel, base clear?

Ray
So I went to home depot after work just to look at some compressors. And as you said they were really expensive compare to the spray guns I looked at online.

I looked at some spray guns also and I found a Husky HVLP gravity feed which was rated at 4 cfm @ 40 psi. It had a recommendation of using a 8 gallon compressor on the box. What do you think about that gun with my compressor?

As to the paint, haha sorry you are completely correct. There is no such thing as solid silver. After looking at my color code the color I would need is a sleek silver metallic.

Honestly I don't really know much when it comes to paints and clear and top coats and such; so any advice would be much appreciated. I know that I am imposing too many limitations but my expectations for the end result are not very high. I would be more than happy with the result being just okay to decent.
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Old 09-18-2013, 07:06 PM
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If you found a paint gun that uses 4 CFM, your expectations are that it may turn out less than 100% and it falls into your price range...then you very well may have a starter set up that will get you through some paint work.

Chances are that your car was painted in base clear, if you need advice moving forward, let me know and I'll try and walk you through the steps and materials needed to paint your panels. Remember, automotive paint isn't cheap...your material bill will be much more than your paint gun.

Ray
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Old 09-18-2013, 07:33 PM
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Great! I will go ahead with the gun then.

Your help would be great. I can tell you what I know/understand so far and if you can lead me from there or clear any misunderstanding I have I would greatly appreciate it.

The panels I got are primed. According to what I have read I should rub it with some lacquer and if the priming rubs off that means it is not an e-coat priming. If it is I can go ahead wash and de-grease and then start with sanding (I can't exactly remember what grit) and scuffing. After I am done with the following I can start with the painting. I still have to do more research as to what paint, how many layers and such. Also I was reading that getting a moisture absorber for the compressor is necessary.

So if you can guide me further that would be great.
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Old 09-18-2013, 07:46 PM
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Okay, first of all, I'm not going to give you information overload... we can go through the processes step by step. True, if the coating on the panels washed of with thinner, it's not an E coat and should be removed and replaced with an Epoxy primer. In a perfect world, even if it is an E coat, an Epoxy primer is still a good idea. It acts as a buffer between the the substrate and the top coat.

Before anything is sanded, we need to find out what type of paint your going to apply...it will be either single stage or base clear...for base clear (you could use these grits for single stage as well but single stage can be sanded with coarse paper like 320 grit), the panels can be sanded with either 400 grit dry paper or 600 wet (I can explain the difference if you like). This will leave you a footprint fine enough so that sand scratches won't show up.

So lets find out what kind of coating you have, (I still feel more comfortable with an Epoxy cushion but, your call) and what type of paint your going to be using and we can take it from their.

Ray
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Old 09-18-2013, 07:55 PM
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Okay step by step sounds even better.

How do I know whether I need to go with single stage or base clear? Is that something specific to a car or depends on the users choice?

And if you can explain the difference between the wet and dry sanding that would be good. That way at least I know the reasoning behind it instead of blindly doing something.

If the adding the epoxy primer is something that does not incur a huge extra cost then I would have no issue with doing that step as well.

In case it helps, I have an 07 Hyundai Sonata. My color code is K1. Silve sleek metallic.
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:26 PM
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Let's start at the beginning, an 07 Sonata will be base clear paint from the factory. Don't try and paint it in single stage, being that it's a silver, single stage will look dull and drab beside base clear (let alone that there aren't any variants in color formulation in single stage).

The difference between wet and dry paper is what it sounds like. Dry sand paper can only be used dry, wet sand paper can be used wet or dry and is more aggressive than dry paper...that's why the difference in grits used...400 dry versus the more aggressive 600 wet. 600 wet is a bit messier but does a nicer job, last longer because the water acts as a lubricant and cleans the paper while sanding and the sanding sludge cleans off the panels easily.

One thing to remember when sanding, if your not using a block (a block is a piece of equipment used to ensure that a panel stays straight or gets straighter when sanding primer) is to use the palm of your hand and not your fingers, If you use your fingers, chances are lines in the form of your fingers will show up in your paint (yes, it's that fussy).

If your going to do the thinner test on your panel, check the inside of the panel, not the outside. It's not a good idea to get lacquer thinner on anything that you will eventually be painting.

Ray
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
First of all, welcome to the site...and you probably made a wise choice in asking before you purchased. Unfortunately virtually every gun will require more CFM than your compressor puts out....and that's if the compressor manufacturer isn't lying to you about CFM output (most compressor manufacturer's embellish the CFM output). You could purchase a small Harbor Freight touch up gun...they are inexpensive, don't hold much paint and if your going to be spraying one panel at a time, letting your compressor cool down between panels, you might get away with it.

Before you purchase a touch up gun, check to see if the CFM requirements can be handled by your compressor...if it requires 6 or 7 CFM, the compressor will run continuously and you will have a drop in air pressure at the gun. If your spraying a solid color, it's not that big a deal...if your color is a metallic, the color will change as the pressure drops.

I hope this helps, if you need more information, let me know, I'll try and explain further.

Ray
Perfect explanation! I learned the hard way. Most 'cheaper' guns require more air pressure. My compressor cranks out 7.6 cfm at 40psi and it runs contnually even shooting panel at a time
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:48 PM
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Okay I follow so far.

It has to be base clear for reasons you mentioned.

If 600 wet is better I would do that as man hours is something I have plenty of. I can buy a sanding block but if I do not I will make sure to use my palm.

I will also take care to test the inside of the panel with the lacquer thinner.

Assuming it is an e-coat I would proceed straight with 600 wet sanding? Do I need to give the panel a good wash before the sanding or the wet sanding takes care of that as well.
And if it is not an e-coat do I still go ahead with the same grit or is the process a little different.
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Old 09-18-2013, 09:14 PM
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If the coating on the replacement panels is an E coat...it can be top coated after it has been sanded. One thing I should mention as well, one panel you mentioned was a fender I believe...that fender will have areas that sand paper cannot get into, for those areas a "Gray Scotch Brite" pad can be used to rough up the E coat.

I do custom work and don't see to many vehicles as new as yours...Virtually everything I do is brought down to bare metal and the substrate built up starting with Epoxy Primers...that being said, in body shops, it is common to paint over top of of an E coated panel.

You asked a very good question in should you clean the panel before you start sanding. the answer is Yes, the reason is that if you don't and there is contamination on your E coat and you start sanding the panel, the contamination could get ground into the E coat and cause problems down the road. the panel should be cleaned with wax and grease remover. This product is applied by using a lint free towel with wax and grease remove on it, and immediately followed by wiping it off, removing all the wax and grease remover...this will clean any contamination that has accumulated on your new panel from shipping or the guy that had a cheese burger for lunch, didn't was his hands and wrapped your panel. Wax and grease remover can be purchased at any automotive paint supply store...if you want to save a little more money compared to their prices, there are options.

If the coating that's on your panels is not an E Coat, my best advice would be to remove it...because we don't know what it is and if it comes off with thinner, that means that chances are that it will absorb moisture...and moisture is not your friend...also if thinner takes the coating off, it would be considered an unstable substrate. You could take your chances and sand it as though it was an E coated panel and then paint it...it all depends on how much you like your car and how long you want it to last.

If you do decide to strip the panel and re coat it...this is where a Quality Epoxy primer comes in...if this would be your plan of attack, let me know and I can recommend a primer that is user and cost friendly and works well...also shipping would be free...No, I don't work for that paint company...LOL

I hope this answers your questions, let me know how things go and we can move forward.

Ray
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Old 09-18-2013, 09:21 PM
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Okay that clears up a lot.

My panels should be arriving within this week. Or early next week. Should I do the steps that you have explained so far and then just reply to this thread on how to proceed further? Or would you prefer to dish out all the instructions now regardless of when I receive the panels?

Either case is completely fine with me as you are using you free time to help me out. I have posted on many forums and have received absolutely no answer so this is unbelievable helpful to a novice like myself.
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