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Old 01-26-2006, 01:17 PM
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First Time Body Resto

This is a fantastic forum, seems like most of the users know what's going on. I own a small auto shop in Missouri - After Hours Automotive. Myself and a longtime friend can usually be found wrenching away on most nights. We recently landed a resto job on a 1987 Toyota Pickup. Thus far we've removed a badly damaged bed, fenders, hood, and doors. The interior has also been gutted. We're preparing to start prepping the truck for paint. I've had minimal experience in the past painting and at the time it was under close supervision of a professional.

I've done a great deal of reading and feel like I have a general idea of what needs to be done to get it done right. We have all the tools we need to do the job...no cheap crap, no harbor freight HVLP's. I'm still a little unsure on the order in which to do things. #1 wash all panels soap/water, #2 prep panels with a surface cleaner (remove grease, wax, etc), #3 use body filler to fill small dents in cab/hood (bed and fenders are new), #4 sand body filler, sand all panels/old paint, clean again, shoot base coat of primer, sand smooth/remove imperfections, shoot 2nd coat of primer, clean again, shoot a sealer, clean again (tack cloth), spray base coat of color...in our case nason 2k urethane pearl black 1 stage.

Obviously I've left out quite a few of the details but I'm thinking this is the correct order? Would I be better off reassembling all the body panels before painting? Should I shoot the doors, fenders, hood, bed off the frame/cab? Any help would be GREATLY appreciated, I don't believe I'm over my head yet but could really use some experienced painters advice. Thanks!!!
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Old 01-26-2006, 03:44 PM
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I can assure you that someone is gonna post that I am completely wrong,but heres my 2 pennies.I think you have a good idea of how to go about doing this job.If you want a really sharp paint job,I would follow the rules you have layed out,but I would prime the body work,block sand it,then prime the whole panel.I would also recommend not spraying a single stage with pear or metal flake.I would use a quality BC/CC.I paint for a living,Im also the shop owner,so I know cost is an issue,but I would use a higher grade than Nason.I would also recommend that you forget about the sealer,If you prime all of the surfaces that you are gonna paint,no need for the sealer,and its just one more thing that can go wrong.The "cut and buff" is where you make the most difference.Learning how to fix the screw ups is what makes you a painter.Also,I would recommend using one product line,meaning,If you use RM Diamont primer(my favorite)then use Diamont base and clear.Mixing them up is asking for trouble......Im not saying it wont work,Im just saying you will have trouble if it does screw up.And you will be left holding the bag.As usual,........im sure some one will post telling you how wrong I am...lol....good luck!
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Old 01-26-2006, 03:46 PM
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Oh yea,one more thing,I would probably trim all the pannels out,them hang them,do all the fitment,then paint the truck.With that said,I would paint the bed off the truck.Just be sure to apply the paint in the exact same manner on the bed as you did on the cab.
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Old 01-26-2006, 03:51 PM
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Okay, everyone has different ways of doing things, but first thing i would do would be to wash the truck and when its clean and dry, look down the panels from the side and circle all the dents with something like a grease pencil that you find while its still glossy, as well as anything else that may need attention. You can then grind down to metal in these areas and feather out the paint with 80 grit and sand a ways past the feathered edge with 320 grit and fill any large dents. Any minor dents or gouges that wont feather out you can sand the paint and using a finishing putty that is okay to use over sanded paint to fill them. Or you can apply epoxy primer first where you ground and the next day apply your body filler over it. If you are not planning on taking the whole truck down to bare metal,This may lessen the chance of you missing something if you haven't done it alot and can rely on feel to find spots. If the paint is in overall good shape you don't have to prime the whole car, just bodywork areas and spots you need some fill. You can seal the truck just before painting with a proper shade to help with coverage and get it all one color if you think its needed. That should get you started, any other specific questions just ask, many qualified people here to answer your questions. Being you are painting a pearl, I would asswmble all and paint it all at once. Just jamb parts or anything that needs painting before installing them. How are the wheel well flares on the truck for rust. Those toyota trucks had a real problem in that area due to galvanic corrosion I believe. I agree with evil, a pearl is gonna be tough for a beginner with limited gun time, with a single stage, it would be really tough unless painting comes naturally or you are lucky.
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Old 01-26-2006, 04:55 PM
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Body Panels/Single Stage

I had a feeling I'd get yelled at for single stage ...it seems like that's not the route to take. We're willing to switch to a BC/CC, probably be more forgiving in the end. The panels are all in great shape...the fenders and bed are new, the cab/doors are in excellent condition (no rust) minus some dings. Does anyone have a recommendation on what type of filler to use?

We ground down the frame rails/sealed/painted last night...looks great. A good 5-10 hours of cleaning to go and we'll be ready to start marking/filling the dents. I'm still not sure if priming first then filling is better, or filling and then priming. Again everyone on here is fantastic, thank you so much for the input!!!
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Old 01-26-2006, 05:26 PM
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I like to use Evercoat's Rage Gold,but thats just me.Primeing with epoxy first,then filler is better.You get a moisture barrier,that being said,I just started doing it that way and haven't had any problems the other way.As far as the primeing of the whole panel,I work on high end restos,so I have found when doing anything,I usually over do it.But I don't think you can go wrong with primeing the whole panel,it just costs more.But thats how I do it when doing an all over job with lots of body work and new parts.
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Old 01-26-2006, 05:41 PM
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P.S....I find when I ask a question,or start a thread,I leave with more questions tha answere....hope I have helped.
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Old 01-26-2006, 05:45 PM
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P.s.s...I posted those pics to let you know that I kinda do know what Im talkin about,not that Kenseth17 doesnt,it just helps to know the person giving the advise,is knowledgeable.Good luck!
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Old 01-26-2006, 07:19 PM
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I got started in the late 80's and went to school for body tech in 1990. Been involved with either painting or bodywork at my jobs ever since, still a lot I don't know. Thats what is nice about a forum like this they have now, which they didn't when I started. You can get a few different opinions from people who may have run into something, and take what you want and leave the rest. A few of the cars I worked on on the side at home in my 1.5 stall garage are in my gallery. Don't have any from when I worked in any bodyshops as a painter and bodyman. I can't imagine how many cars I've worked on between the days in school, in bodyshops, and at home. And all my jobs haven't been in bodyshops, One was a yacht builder, and also industrial painter. I can just imagine someone who has worked in a bodyshop full time for 20 years or more. Think I would have major burnout if I had done that, and wouldn't want to see another car when I got home, even if it was mine or a relatives. Maybe thats part of the reason many change careers or even take a desk job in the office. Okay enough useless rambling for now. If spring would ever get here, I could go out and do something out in the garage instead of blabbering on and on.
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Old 01-26-2006, 07:47 PM
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You said you have new parts. Are these aftermarket at all with a thin black primer?
I generally sand them and put on a few coats of primer and sand that or at least seal.
Also make sure you check those new parts well, often they can get a small dent or two when shipped.
If you haven't already, you may want to install the parts and make sure everything is fitting well in case you did get a bad part and had to return before doing any work to them.
I think you would be better switching to base clear. This way any dirt nibs or minor imperfections can be wetsanded and buffed out afterward, you wouldn't be able to sand and buff the single stage with a pearl in it afterwards, If you do run into any problems applying the color, it will be an easier fix, and have easier repairablility down the road. The clear will add some depth also.
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Old 01-27-2006, 08:08 AM
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Hey Kenseth17,I was not trying to put you,or your skills down,so I hope you didn't take it that way.I just wanted to assure MrHarris,that we have a little experience.When I first joined this sight,It was hard to tell who knew what!I would ask a simple question on a thread,and get 20 different answers,or I would post to try and help someone,and get some 18 year old kid,correcting me,only to find out later that he was a student at some auto body program with no experience.Thanks for helping MrHarris,and thanks for understanding!....lol
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Old 01-27-2006, 08:47 AM
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Great Advice, One more question

A big thanks to both of you for helping out. The more info I get the more confident I am that we're doing this right!!

The last concern I have is painting the door jambs...with the doors off the vehicle should I tape off and paint the jambs on the cab and the doors before installing the doors for surface paint? We installing custom fit interior door panels that will leave the bottom half of the door exposed and we'll need to be painted. We're going to finish cleaning this weekend, light sand the entire truck and apply the first coat of primer Monday, start sanding and filling, prime again and prep for the BC.

Thanks again for all the advice, it seems to me both of you know what you're talking about When we complete this rig I'm going to post some pics...hope they're with pride!
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Old 01-27-2006, 09:34 AM
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I cant wait to see the pics.......I would say that I would paint the jambs before,as aposed to after.I think thats the way to go.
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Old 01-27-2006, 03:49 PM
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I agree, paint the doors first. I would get all your bodywork and priming done, to the point where you are done priming and just need final sanding. Then pull your doors and paint the jambs and inside the doors and reinstall. Then you can paint the outside all at once and make sure the pearl is even and its all painted the same. Just make sure you tape off inside the doors good. I like to tape fairly close to the edge and roll the tape edge back a little so I don't get a sharpe line. You could even go as far as opening the doors carefully after the last coat of clear is on, and roll back the tape aways and shoot a light coat of reducer over it to make it even less noticible, but I don't do it too often. Risky messing around trying to open the doors with fresh paint on the outside. Others tape them different, but it always seem that if you tape a ways back from the edge that if you do seal the car, the sealer always seems to go in further then paint does which looks really bad. Unless you are doing out an all out show car and people are going to be looking that close inside there, I jamb everything first, and then just worry about painting all the outside at once, and plus its nice to not have a bunch of parts all over to spray taking up a lot of room and think it will be the easiest on you, as well lessening the possibility that you could get some variation between panels using the pearl.

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