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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2013, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by cdminter59 View Post
valve timing at 6*

Just a small technicality- .006" NOT 6.

And be careful with this number as advertised duration may or may not be at 6 even for a given cam grinder they're adv duration specs can be measured at different points .004", .005", .006" are all common for hydraulic cams. For solids the lash value is sometimes used, sometimes its .004" and sometimes its .020".

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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2013, 11:04 AM
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Who sold you that line of crap? The vortec heads perform as well as they do thanks to a tall runner, better short turn, and better chamber- it doesn't have a damn thing to do with surface finish.
While I look for the ref to your question,I found this info that might be useful to the O/P:

Porting For Performance The Science of Horsepower: Engine Builder

Off hand I think it was Larry Carley or Joe Mondello,but I got to find it.You see at the bottom of this ref,Joe talking about a different finish on the intake side.But Joe has been dead I think for two yrs now,so I might not find the ref I want.I used to talk to him often too yrs ago.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2013, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by 1Gary View Post
While I look for the ref to your question,I found this info that might be useful to the O/P:

Porting For Performance The Science of Horsepower: Engine Builder

Off hand I think it was Larry Carley or Joe Mondello,but I got to find it.You see at the bottom of this ref,Joe talking about a different finish on the intake side.But Joe has been dead I think for two yrs now,so I might not find the ref I want.I used to talk to him often too yrs ago.
Thank you for the usefull link as i'm gettin ready to start porting my other head the same as the first one but i'm hopefully gonna build a pretty stout, 475-525 pounds of torque, 400 block i've got for my next build and plan on really working the heads for it. I have a pair of Patriots for it but not sure yet if i'm gonna use them or not.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2013, 11:24 AM
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Patriot went out of business,so if you have a good set,you might want to baby them.I was told they where bought out and was going to reopen in acouple of months under another name,but I didn't get who bought them or what the new name was.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2013, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by 1Gary View Post
While I look for the ref to your question,I found this info that might be useful to the O/P:

Porting For Performance The Science of Horsepower: Engine Builder

Off hand I think it was Larry Carley or Joe Mondello,but I got to find it.You see at the bottom of this ref,Joe talking about a different finish on the intake side.But Joe has been dead I think for two yrs now,so I might not find the ref I want.I used to talk to him often too yrs ago.
a different finish being a 80grit cartridge roll. even the finish a carbide bit leaves is must smoother than a rough casting, especially a GM casting. going over it with 80grit helps smooth the high and low spots, its not needed but sometimes it helps. I like to spray the port with dye right before I'm done and then take a used 80grit roll to it, the low spots show up immediately.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2013, 01:52 PM
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I am very sure by a reliable source the Vortec heads rough surface plays a role in the performance of the heads by suspending the A/F mixture.That you can benefit from porting the exhaust side,but not to alter the intake runner.That if you smooth port the intake runner,what your left with is just another set of OEM castings.
It is one of those deals that is a summary in your knowledge base you have learned along the way.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2013, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Gary View Post
While I look for the ref to your question,I found this info that might be useful to the O/P:

Porting For Performance The Science of Horsepower: Engine Builder

Off hand I think it was Larry Carley or Joe Mondello,but I got to find it.You see at the bottom of this ref,Joe talking about a different finish on the intake side.But Joe has been dead I think for two yrs now,so I might not find the ref I want.I used to talk to him often too yrs ago.
Great article Gary, should be required reading for all of us....Joe explains the proper grit to use in the last paragraph of the article.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2013, 02:57 PM
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.. Obviously there is benefit in altering the intake port... that's why heads have gone from the older 157cc intake ports to 175cc and 185cc Vortec intake ports and 195cc AFR's and 235cc MoTowns, etc...
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Old 01-08-2013, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by 1Gary View Post
I am very sure by a reliable source the Vortec heads rough surface plays a role in the performance of the heads by suspending the A/F mixture.That you can benefit from porting the exhaust side,but not to alter the intake runner.That if you smooth port the intake runner,what your left with is just another set of OEM castings.
It is one of those deals that is a summary in your knowledge base you have learned along the way.
To say any port is optimized as cast is a bunch of stinky BS. Just as any other head they can be improved upon by porting the intake and exhaust, in the case of the oem production vortec heads they can be improved a great deal.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2013, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by techinspector1 View Post
Great article Gary, should be required reading for all of us....Joe explains the proper grit to use in the last paragraph of the article.
There you are, lol. I was hoping you would chime in on the DCR and SCR conversation we've had, not to mention your imput on the op.
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2013, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ap72 View Post
To say any port is optimized as cast is a bunch of stinky BS. Just as any other head they can be improved upon by porting the intake and exhaust, in the case of the oem production vortec heads they can be improved a great deal.
Ya know,honestly,it doesn't matter much what I think or what you think.I offer up what I know and you do as well.I promise you that in my retirement,nothing is going to upset me,and certainly not a post to the thread like this one.

I don't care about nothing more than trying to help out people.

All the battles are behind me now.

The eight bolt Vortecs I was told have a greater tendency to leak.But that could very well be because of the crappy OEM gaskets.
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2013, 09:34 PM
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1gary. Im glad you share your knowledge with us.
I know that all members dont always agree or only partially agree,but I dont see the need for attacks.
Like you I offer my all be it limited,experiences. I enjoy learning at the same time.

I will try to be less blunt in the future,or take problems to private messages. I would like to see a few different engines and combinations in the future
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2013, 10:09 PM
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Porting Vortec heads is like touching up a Picasso...
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 01-09-2013, 07:22 AM
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Porting them well will take them to about 190cc's and 250-260cfm with a 1.94" valve. And if you have a 350 that is approaching 6,000 RPM (very common for most hot street builds) that can equate to some major power.

The vortec heads were a design improvement but they were also truck heads that were produced as cost effectively as possible. Which leaves a LOT of room for improvement on a hot street build.
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 01-09-2013, 07:55 AM
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AP-I don't think on production Vortec heads you go as big as 190cc's.
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