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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2010, 07:54 AM
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I am having fish eye problems as well, with black spi epoxy.

I don't know what to do. I am using the 700 water wax and grease remover.

I even put the w&g in a spray bottle, do about a 1 sq ft. area wipe with clean towel. wait 30 minutes.

I have also let the epoxy induce for 30 minutes.

I even tried to not use the w&g remover. still had fish eyes.( wiped with hot water and comet solution. followed by water . dry with towel and air. tack with crystal cloth. wait 30 minutes.)

I have done several small parts ( mirrors, handles,etc.) and hood and deck lid.
all at different times spread over several days.all have had fish eyes.

Some of these parts I have sanded down the epoxy with 600 .then second epoxy coated them. epoxy seems to go on a lot better, but not 100% fish eye free.
then base coated them with ppg dbc9700. the base goes on really nice with no fish eyes. then I have cleared these parts with the spi universal clear.
The clear is outstanding, and looks like it was dipped. no orange peel, looks like glass. So, I don't think it is water or oil in the lines or equipment.

Also the temp. at the time of epoxying these parts was about 65-70 deg.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2010, 08:43 AM
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temp of the air means very little. it is the temp of the part that counts. when my booth warms up to 65 the metal is still 50 or so from the night before. in winter of course. but shooting on cold metal will look like fish eyes .
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Old 05-02-2010, 02:04 PM
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I have sprayed the black epoxy several times without fisheyes so I don't think it's the epoxy.
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Old 05-02-2010, 04:48 PM
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All you can do is keep a clean work practice and keep eliminating things until you find the problem. Things you can try are, change air hose, use a different batch of gun wash, reducer, wax and greese remover,and even the towling you use. Make sure there are no silicon products in or around your paint booth and do not use hand lotion as it to contains silicon.
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Old 05-09-2010, 11:00 PM
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I nailed down my problem tonight. It was the gun. I bought a new harbor Freight purple gun and it must have some kind of lube or grease in it from manufacturing. I made epoxy tonight from a new can of SPI epoxy, in different cups, using a different mixing stick, and degreased the car twice. Still had fisheyes. I broke out an older gun, poured the paint in it, no fisheyes. I sprayed the rest of what I had mixed with no problems. When I ran out of epoxy, I poured what was still in the cup from the first gun into the old gun. Yup, fisheyes again. I poured out the paint, cleaned the crap out of my old gun, and mixed up new paint. No problems arfter that.

Lesson for all the HF purple gun owners, the new ones have oil in them when new.
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Old 05-10-2010, 12:34 AM
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Last edited by 61panhead; 05-11-2010 at 02:59 AM. Reason: none
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2010, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armentrout
Wax and grease remover is for pre-sand cleaning of the wax on the finish. Not for body work or bare metal. W&G remover will cause fisheyes...sometimes especially if you really hog it on trying to "wash" it. Notice it will "bead" if you dump it on? Use a FAST dry enamel reducer to clean metal and body work. It will evaporate very quickly and will remove most any contaminates.
I think most everyone on this site is gonna disagree with you on this. W&G remover is for bare metal and can be used over body work. I understand what you mean by pre-sand use. It will get the W&G off of the body so that when you sand it you are not just grinding it in. But a lot of things happen between sanding and painting, especially outside of a professionals shop. It's cheap insurance. I spoke with the guys at SPI about my problem. They walked me through the process of properly using it. I have switched over from the water based stuff to the solvent based stuff. Much better, doesn't evaporate faster than you can wipe it off.
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Old 05-10-2010, 11:40 AM
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Good job on finding the culpret, some times it can be months before you find out what is causing the fisheyes.
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Old 05-10-2010, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armentrout
Wax and grease remover is for pre-sand cleaning of the wax on the finish. Not for body work or bare metal. W&G remover will cause fisheyes...sometimes especially if you really hog it on trying to "wash" it. Notice it will "bead" if you dump it on? Use a FAST dry enamel reducer to clean metal and body work. It will evaporate very quickly and will remove most any contaminates.
Wrong information except for the advice about hogging it on. W&G remover should be used on bare metal before primer, on primer before applying more primer, and on primer before BC. The key to using it is to NOT let it evaporate dry, wipe it clean just like you are cleaning a windshield and change paper towels regularly. I have never had a problem with fish eyes related to the use of W&G removers, quite the contrary would be the case.

Vince
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Old 05-10-2010, 02:11 PM
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Yeah. I was ignorant on the wipe it off part until I talked to SPI. I was just dousing the car down with it and wiping it all around. Very wasteful and futile. I would only be pushing the contaminates around instead of getting rid of them. The water based W&G stuff evaporates so fast that you almost can't keep up with it.
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Old 05-10-2010, 02:31 PM
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I am with 302 Z28 on this one. I have never had an issue with fish-eyes from wax and grease remover.
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Old 05-10-2010, 04:50 PM
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I have also heard specifically NOT to use reducer.
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Old 05-16-2010, 07:38 AM
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I think My problem is equipment related. what I was describing as fish eyes are probably more accurate, solvent pop.

I am using a devilbils desicant snake. The diaphram regulator stuck the other day. when I opened it up, media from the snake was clogged in the regulator.
when I inspected the snake it was almost completly clogged.

I ran the gun without the snake. much more volume.

I think the volume of air was so low that it was not atomizing the epoxy
properly.

Does this sound possible?
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Old 05-16-2010, 08:23 AM
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Fisheyes appear instantly while you are painting not later like solvent pop does. If you cant SEE it fisheye while you are spraying, it's NOT fisheyes. Solvent pop happens when the paint is curing. Top layer skims over and traps the excessive solvents under. Eventually they force themselves out damaging the surface. Also if the epoxy/paint/clear isn't being atomized correctly it will be noticable while you are spraying. I will be orangepeely when it is being sprayed. WAY more texture than normal.
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:54 PM
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My Fisheyes are back!. Could this be water coming from my air line? What does it look like when that happens. I used my old gun that had never given me problems before and wiped the car down with W&G remover, let it dry for about 2 hrs and washed everything like mixing cups with dishwashing soap before I sprayed anything. I had completely disassembled my gun and cleaned it prior to spraying. I am using one of those disposable dessicant filters right at the gun. The humidity is high right now and I have noticed a lot of water in the compressor lately because of that.
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