Fix engine or buy crate - Page 2 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 01-05-2011, 11:56 PM
BigRoy1978's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Hugoton, KS
Age: 25
Posts: 323
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
One route for a cheaper crate engine, would be to look at used -602 -604 crate engines from the dirt circle world.

Rules wont allow racers to rebuild them, so you can usually score one pretty cheap, that usually needs only a set or rings!

just an option.

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 01-06-2011, 08:07 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: US
Posts: 132
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Interesting idea on the used motor. I will keep an eye out. Hoping someone would chime in with an experience with Motorworks, they have been around since 1981
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 01-06-2011, 10:22 PM
BigRoy1978's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Hugoton, KS
Age: 25
Posts: 323
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1972scoutII
Interesting idea on the used motor. I will keep an eye out. Hoping someone would chime in with an experience with Motorworks, they have been around since 1981
you can usually get one off of Racingjunk.com for around 2000 bucks as a complete engine.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 01-06-2011, 10:57 PM
BigEd36's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Auburn, IN
Age: 65
Posts: 381
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 16
Thanked 40 Times in 36 Posts
There's a 602 on RacingJunk.com right now with approx 50 laps on it for $2200 including a light weight flywheel.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 01-06-2011, 11:21 PM
BigRoy1978's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Hugoton, KS
Age: 25
Posts: 323
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
You will just have to get a couple bolts to replace the seal bolts they have on them if you do go that route, not sure where they are, never have looked at one.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2011, 11:33 AM
BigEd36's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Auburn, IN
Age: 65
Posts: 381
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 16
Thanked 40 Times in 36 Posts
I've never looked at one to check that either, but I think there's one on the timing cover, one on the oil pan, one on the intake, and it seems like there may be one on each head. Since 1972scoutII isn't going to be circle track racing he'll probably want to get rid of the circle track oil pan.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2011, 12:04 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: US
Posts: 132
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Are these engines tuned for high RPM? I am looking for more power down low
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2011, 02:29 PM
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: How to title a hot rod Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: West Virginia
Age: 25
Posts: 3,389
Wiki Edits: 8

Thanks: 14
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
http://stores.ebay.com/J-and-C-Cylinder-Head-Exchange
I got my vortecs (rhs) from them, excellent people to deal with.
Shane
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2011, 02:47 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: US
Posts: 132
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Looks like a great deal on heads, too bad the dont have complete engines
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2011, 11:08 PM
BigRoy1978's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Hugoton, KS
Age: 25
Posts: 323
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1972scoutII
Are these engines tuned for high RPM? I am looking for more power down low

they have really nice heads on them, and a rotating assembly that you wouldnt tear up on the street.

You could put a lower RPM cam in it, and it would be great!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2011, 10:16 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: US
Posts: 132
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Not really interested in rebuilding (re ringing) an engine, otherwise I would just rebuild what I have
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2011, 10:40 PM
BigRoy1978's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Hugoton, KS
Age: 25
Posts: 323
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
...huh?

If your current engine just needs freshened, no machine work, why not just...freshen it? A LOT cheaper than buying a crate....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 01-09-2011, 02:25 PM
BigEd36's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Auburn, IN
Age: 65
Posts: 381
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 16
Thanked 40 Times in 36 Posts
1972scout, for some background on these engines. The "602" and "604" crate engines are circle track "spec" engines. They are factory sealed engines, that is they have "seals" on them so you can't do any internal work on them without breaking the seal. About the only thing you can legally do to them is to change the valve springs and adjust lifters. Anything else internally in the engines you have to take them to an authorized rebuilder, who is required to use original replacement parts, and the engine has to be resealed before you can race it again. If your engine has the seals tampered with or broken you are disqualified. If your engine has any internal parts that are illegal upon an inspection you are disqualified. The engine builders are bonded, and there are punishments/fines for an engine builder that "cheats up" an engine. This is the reason why many teams sell an engine that needs no more than a "freshen". By the time they pay a builder for the GM parts and the labor to refreshen the engine, or even to make a fairly simple repair, and to re-certify/reseal it, it's cheaper for them to sell the engine to somebody who doesn't need a "sealed" engine, and to buy another new engine. Sometimes a racer decides that the "crate class" isn't for him, decides to move up to an unlimited class, or just decides that he can't afford racing, so an engine will go up for sale that doesn't need any repairs. Some of the teams that can afford to have purchased multiple engines, dyno them all, keep the ones that dyno the best and sell the rest. As you can see there are a number of reasons for a "lightly" used engine to be for sale.

The "604" CT350/400HP circle track engine is based on the GMPP "Fast Burn 385" 350ci/385hp engine. This engine doesn't even hit it's HP peak til 5500 or so rpm, so it is totally out of line with the goals you've stated. The "602" CT350/350 circle track engine is based on the 350HO 350ci/330HP engine , but has a circle track oil pan and a high rise aluminum manifold added. The 350/350 and the 350HO dyno charts show HP peaks at over 5000 rpm, and torque curves that don't really "come on" til after 2000 rpm, so with your expressed desire to have a lot of low end torque, these aren't ideal either. These 2 engines are both based on a 1 pc mainseal block with Vortec heads, with a GMPP camshaft. They would work well with a milder cam, as BigRoy pointed out, but either will still cost you considerably more than the other engines considered here. The 350/300 HP engine I recommended from Pace is just a "Universal 350" from Goodwrench with the same cam as these 2 engines, but that still seems to be a cam not really in line with your goals. The 350/285HP engine from Sallee Chevrolet is a "Universal 350" that has the same cam specs you said West Coast Engines/Motorwerks would use. It's closer to stock, I suspect it would still give up a little on the very bottom and gain a little more top, which doesn't seem to be a strong priority with you. You seem to want an engine that you can just drop in rather than build/rebuild one (there's NOTHING wrong with that). It seems like the Goodwrench "Universal 350" would probably be the best choice out of all these, given that you would like to have reliability and a warranty. After the warranty runs out, you'll have a good base to build on, you'll already have the nodular crank and PM rods. If you REALLY want to go for a lot of torque, you might want to consider one of the Goodwrench '87 - '95 truck engines. They're designed for torque with the swirl-port heads and a cam with very mild specs. Here's the webpage from Pace Performance showing the "light duty" 1/2 ton 2 bolt main engine: http://paceperformance.com/i-5134967...-7200-gvw.html. This link is for a 4 bolt main engine from the over 8600lb GVW engines. http://paceperformance.com/i-5134965...-8600-gvw.html These engines don't have the provisions for a mechanical fuel pump so you would have to run an electric pump. They have the same short block as Vortec engines, so also would be a good base to build on with a nodular crank and PM rods. You would have to have an intake manifold as the '87 - '95 engines have a different bolt pattern than the older intakes. Overall, I think your best/most economical choice is to use get the "Universal 350". At about $1500 it's not much more, or even less than, a lot of the rebuilt long blocks, and it has all new parts with a good warranty, with dealers for the warranty all over the country. It'll use all the parts you have off your present engine, even your intake manifold.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 01-09-2011, 08:24 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: US
Posts: 132
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks BigED for taking the time to write that up its really good info.

I just sold my old engine to a guy who is going to give it some love and put it in his rat rod, the non drilled for accessory heads will give it the older look he is after.

So now that I have no core its either the GM crate of something rebuilt by someone already that changed their mind

As much as I want a specialized engine, I think that the universal is best bet, Its shame they charge so much extra for just a cam upgrade
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2011, 09:53 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: US
Posts: 132
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Here is the Dyno Curve I get with desktop dyno2003 for that Pace Engine



Either I did something wrong/desktop dyno is optimistic/ or the power ratings pace provides are with stock manifolds and not the EPS
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (0 members and 2 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
350 Crate Engine: Loud humming sound after engine warms up sofa1515 Engine 2 01-11-2010 06:48 PM
Crate Engine JMEDLEY001 Engine 3 12-31-2006 09:33 PM
crate engine StreetRacer Engine 8 04-26-2005 12:31 PM
350 crate engine Seon Engine 2 11-13-2002 05:58 PM
Crate Engine 1Hokie Engine 4 03-29-2002 04:58 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.