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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 02-14-2009, 09:34 AM
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I can help you out.

Hey man, i can give you some good advice. Im an Electrical Engineer and i can help you improve your circuit, get boards made cheap, (i think this company gives first time customers a board or two free) whatever you need i can help. Its what i do for a living. Alot of what i have read on the net about these is incomplete, incorrect or just garbage. For instance as someone said they wired a switch to the coil and directly to power and ground. This does not work, it will produce 1 spark when you close then open the switch, and that's it. They are not to be run with continuous DC power. They are transformers and can only run from AC or pulsed DC. Transistors are easy to get, and when set up correctly will last longer than any relay. Condensers (a OLD word for capacitor) Do not take the place of transistors. They kill the voltage spikes that cause arcing at your relay contacts (or points in a dizzy). The arcing vaporizes small bits metal causing the contacts to wear out quicker.
PM me for email and some help.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 02-17-2009, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NotInTheMafia
Hey man, i can give you some good advice. Im an Electrical Engineer and i can help you improve your circuit, get boards made cheap, (i think this company gives first time customers a board or two free) whatever you need i can help. Its what i do for a living. Alot of what i have read on the net about these is incomplete, incorrect or just garbage. For instance as someone said they wired a switch to the coil and directly to power and ground. This does not work, it will produce 1 spark when you close then open the switch, and that's it. They are not to be run with continuous DC power. They are transformers and can only run from AC or pulsed DC. Transistors are easy to get, and when set up correctly will last longer than any relay. Condensers (a OLD word for capacitor) Do not take the place of transistors. They kill the voltage spikes that cause arcing at your relay contacts (or points in a dizzy). The arcing vaporizes small bits metal causing the contacts to wear out quicker.
PM me for email and some help.
Hey, I appreciate the info. But to tell you the truth this whole idea is starting to scare me. I am aware that a transistor will out last a relay but the purpose of this controller was for ease of repair. There is a couple of people producing these with transistors but evidently the're using cheap parts because from what I have read they don't last long. So the goal was to come up with something that if it did break, all of the parts could be serviceable. In the circuit the relays are wired to perform like a set of points similar to an old style ignition. I have tested this devise to failure and it was the coil that gave up first. Since the only new parts were the relays, I'm thinking the failure was due in part to me using old coils. The device ran continuously for three days. I ran another one to failure with out a coil and it ran continuously for all most a week before a relay gave up. Not all motor heads have the ability to solder small contacts so I opted for the use of relays (plug and play). If this device brakes you just plug in another relay or condenser. Most of us Hotrodders are pack rats and scroungers and I probably have about fifty relays laying around. Every time I go to the junk yards I fill up my pockets.

You are 100% right it has to have a pulsed voltage source to the coil and solid state would be better. I have even made a couple of them with transistors. But what do you do when one of the transistors pop? Even though I can solder real good the average person dose'nt know where to find transistors or how to solder them on a board. There is a couple of people that sell these on the web and they use transistors. But I have read a lot of negative feed back on the durability of them and the company doesn't warranty them. I think that this is do in part to the manufacturer using cheap parts. Yes the points of a relay will not last as long as a transistor but how much use would this devise actually see? I know that there are other ways to do this but the number one goal was to make a devise that could be repaired by the average motor head. The circuitry of the board is really tough and and it would be a rare occurrence for it to actually burn up or melt down. It has a one way diode and fuse on the power source. But if it got into the hands of an idiot it could probably still happen. The number two goal was to make something that would not bring any liability to the manufacturer. This is the obstacle that I can't seem to overcome. That was another reason for using relays over transistors. I could sell it as an incomplete device (just the board) and anyone could plug in some relays. But it looks like that even if I sell the board with no components I could still be liable. Just imagine where I would be if a young cocky fellow put some of these on his car and accidentally lit up the skirt of a young lady walking behind his car at a rally. For this reason I think that I am going to back off on this idea and just continue to make these for myself and a few of my friends.

It's good to know that we have an electrical engineer up here. I do have a couple of other devises in the works so I will definitely put you in my contact list.

Thanks for the input!
Chris
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Old 02-20-2009, 07:38 PM
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flames

ive been pondering about them for a while,dont like the idea of raw fuel or cutting off the motor,a completely seperate system with a pump and old injector will work even when burning out i like the propane idea,what about a flamable gas that burns in a differnt color or multipule gasses for many colors or additives like copper that burns green, sounds cool to me every thing starts with an idea
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Old 02-21-2009, 07:33 AM
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Yeah, people have been making them since the 50's. But they are illegal on the highway and that and the liability is my biggest concern. I have made them and used them before but I know to be careful with them. Like I stated earlier in the post the goal of this devise was to mass produce a controller that number one would be easy to repair and number two come as an incomplete unit so as to limit the liability. But there does'nt seem to be anyway around the liability.

As for introducing added fuel, I have always made a nozzle out or a small piece 1/16" of an inch round tubing by flattening one end and using an electric fuel pump. I don't see why you could'nt use a standard automotive fuel injector.

Introducing different chemicals to change the color of the flame is something that I have'nt thought of and if you pardon the pun, it sparks interest. Mmmmm, some more food for thought.
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Old 02-21-2009, 08:36 AM
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Flame thrower exhaust

Chris,
Notinthemafia is right on the money, use transistors they will out last any thing you can build it with provided you mount them right.Sockets are available for any kind of transistors except SMT's(surface mount technology)and they may have came up with one for them too by now.I'm a retired Avonic's Tech (aircraft electronics/electrican)I worked transistorized power generation/switching systems the last 17 years of my career .
The problem I see with this is not the design or building of this ,as has been said this is illegal every where,the sue happy liberals could have a field day with this , If you desire to make extra money from this ,look at just selling plans/schematics and if needed a premade pc board (not loaded with parts)and sell it for "information purposes only". It may be more complicated than this but you get the idea.
Good Luck and keep us posted.



Kenny

Lost your job yet?
Keep buying foreign.
PS, I always wanted to build one of these,just never got around to it.Just thought they were kool!!
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Old 02-21-2009, 12:44 PM
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flames

shelby has a good idea,selling plans only.youll never make a kit fool proof,just when you think youve got all the bases coverd some idiot will always do something beyond belief,the other day i took apart my kerosine salamamder heater because the fan froze when i noticed a spark plug,also it sparks continuosly during operation,it got me thinking.all the parts are already there,mabee what youve designed should titled under constrution heaters "how they work" wink wink,complete with detailed parts list.i wonder if kero would work in a flame thrower and what about injecting oxygen with it,wait a minute thats jet fuel.id buy the plans if its been tested
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:54 PM
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What I bought...

So I picked up a flame thrower kit from Flame Thrower Exhaust Kits | Johnnylawmotors.com.

Dual flame was $199 shipped to my door. I will add this DOES NOT include the 2 coils and 2 spark plugs needed for installation. Best of Luck.
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman View Post
shelby has a good idea,selling plans only.youll never make a kit fool proof,just when you think youve got all the bases coverd some idiot will always do something beyond belief,the other day i took apart my kerosine salamamder heater because the fan froze when i noticed a spark plug,also it sparks continuosly during operation,it got me thinking.all the parts are already there,mabee what youve designed should titled under constrution heaters "how they work" wink wink,complete with detailed parts list.i wonder if kero would work in a flame thrower and what about injecting oxygen with it,wait a minute thats jet fuel.id buy the plans if its been tested
I don't think an electric salamander sparks continuously. They have a flame sensor and a converter that heats up. Once the converter is red hot it cuts out the spark and keeps the flame lit. At that point the spark relay cuts out and it no longer sparks. If the flame sensor doesn't sense a flame it cuts off the fuel supply and the unit goes off.

And to the OP Chris Kemp. Flamethrower diagrams are available all over the internet for free, so that might make selling systems or diagrams to some saavy hotrodders pretty tough. I know if I wanted one I'd simply buy the pieces and put a system together myself.

Last edited by 1971BB427; 01-16-2013 at 05:27 PM.
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