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Old 08-20-2005, 09:11 PM
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Flattened Cam?

Hope this isn't the case but it all points at the cam. Anyways, Small Block, mainly used for street/strip in a '64 Buick Special. Lunati Voodoo Hydraulic Cam. In the last few weeks I have noticed more and more valve noise. I tried to adjust it out without any luck. Drained the oil and saw shiny particulate. There also seemed to be a lot of ferrous particles stuck to the magnetic drain plug. The oil filter was removed and cut open. There seem to be a bunch of little silvery/shiny metal chunks in the filter, most notably in the cracks. It appears to be steel. There really are a bunch of these particles and they look almost like they have been ground off. Does this seem to be the cam? Oil pressure was still normal when I began the inspection.
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Old 08-20-2005, 09:30 PM
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A flat cam may not affect oil pressure. With all the metal you have seen, something is definately wrong.

Use a long screwdriver and pinpoint the noisy rockers. Pull the coil to dist wire so the engine does not start. They pull the valve covers and turn the engine over.

Watch the rocker(s) in question. Compare the amount they compress the springs to the other ones. A flat cam or worn down one will not move the rocker too much.

You really need to find out what happened, too much loose metal shavings are not good for the bearings. The filter can only trap so much, then it will bypass the oil and crap.
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Old 08-20-2005, 09:34 PM
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Luckily it has not been driven too far like this. Also, the filter was not close to being plugged to the point of bypassing, it just had enough metal to throw up a red flag. I'll have to get a dial indicator on it tomorrow.
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Old 08-20-2005, 09:39 PM
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Unfortunately with a bad lobe, your calibrated eye ball will work.

I have had noisy rockers that would not adjust turn out to be a cracked spring.
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Old 08-20-2005, 09:47 PM
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Last time I tried to adjust it out, I could not tell if one lobe was different from the other. They all pretty much looked the same. But then I again, this was at the track and I was trying to get my dad back out to race. I was paying attention to the amount of preload after reaching zero lash. Afterwards it only seemed mildly better than when I started. I guess it's really done for then. About now i'm wishing that we had put a 2-piece timing chain cover on it... Now I've got to decide whether it's worth pulling the motor or not...
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Old 08-20-2005, 09:59 PM
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It is hard to see if a rocker is not moving as far on a running engine. That is why I suggested just cranking the engine over like you were going to adjust solid lifters.
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Old 08-20-2005, 10:32 PM
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Will check tomorrow.
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Old 08-21-2005, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1982 SS
Last time I tried to adjust it out, I could not tell if one lobe was different from the other. They all pretty much looked the same. But then I again, this was at the track and I was trying to get my dad back out to race. I was paying attention to the amount of preload after reaching zero lash. Afterwards it only seemed mildly better than when I started. I guess it's really done for then. About now i'm wishing that we had put a 2-piece timing chain cover on it... Now I've got to decide whether it's worth pulling the motor or not...
High spring pressures/ well used cam/ yikes........ If it is a "flat cam".....

Oh you ARE going to pull the engine..... you have a lobe problem, that engine is full of s..chtuff....

Remember the metal trash is going through your oil pump to get to the filter....... your oil pump is trash now..... don't try to save a few bucks and not change it, it is failure looking for a place to happen.

Also all that metal falling from the cam while it is spinning is slinging all over inside against the crank and the cylinder walls, and you have a pretty high odds that your engine is already fragged. Odds are 50/50 that soon you are going for a total rebuild.

If you try to save that engine, flush it several times before you change that oil pump.

Welcome to reality.
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Old 08-21-2005, 01:39 PM
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Once again realtiy rears it's ugly head. I had planned on trying to save it. I was going to take itout and clean it out real good and see if it will pull through. If not, I have an extra block roughed to .040 wainting for the pistons for the final size. About to head out to begin the tearing down and see what kind of carnage is to be seen.

Thanks for your input guys.
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Old 08-21-2005, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1982 SS
About now i'm wishing that we had put a 2-piece timing chain cover on it...

Two piece timing covers are lifesavers. I just wish I would have bought one that would allow me to remove/replace the timing set as well as the cam. I installed a gear drive along with a new cam and timing cover and now I wish I could pull the gear drive and go back to a chain. But I cant with out disassembling everything again.
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Old 08-21-2005, 04:38 PM
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I really wish it were a 2 piece cover now... The cam is done. #2 exhaust lobe is flat a pancake and the lifter is about 1/8" concave. It was the first lifter it touched too. Noticed it seemed awful loose and my dads' first thought was that the stud was pulling out. Intake came off and looked through one of the drainage holes and the lobe had a powdery ground appearance. Oddly enough, this car had made a best pass without shifting of a 13.86 on the brakes while the cam was in the process of going flat. drove it home and drove it to see what people thought. And it still ran fairly decent. Just in it's last bit of running it seems to hesitate and miss a little nearing WOT. I do not think there is many shavings around inside the other parts, every place I look this is no real sign of particulate. I guess the filter did it's job and caught it all. The next step is to evaluate whether the block is still good (probably is, oil pressure was where it has always been, even when we pulled it in to the garage).
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Old 08-21-2005, 05:30 PM
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Block should be fine, bearings might not be.
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Old 08-21-2005, 05:58 PM
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Motor's comin out. I will find out in the next day or so.
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Old 08-21-2005, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1982 SS
Motor's comin out. I will find out in the next day or so.
Ah Reality strikes...... Been there, done that.
I have seen lifters so concave and flared out that it would not come up through the lifter bore. Had to push it up, pull the cam and drive the lifter down... if you do this in the car.. it could go right into the pan...

Let us know on this thread how things look

Check out www.readershotrods.com drag cars/georges
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Old 08-21-2005, 10:49 PM
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Got working away and it's almost out, It will be out tomorrow. The engine is actuall going to stay in the car. I can do almost all of it with the engine in and I can use a syringe to squirt some silicone onto the lip of the oil pan. I think I will work it's way out somehow. Just looking at it, it was almost to large to safely remove from the bore. It came out and is at least 1/8" shorter than a normal lifter.
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