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Old 09-18-2013, 07:34 PM
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Flow bench tests/numbers for TBI/TPI intake port, Swirl port info

Flow bench tests/numbers for TBI/TPI intake port 187 casting, aka Swirl port.

These numbers are to correct the misinformation out there about the Swirl port, the flow numbers for the HO head as you will see below cannot be interchanged with the swirl port, the swirl port is in fact a far superior head in this regard.

On this day of testing back in 06 I flowed 3 heads, #1) a HO head # 14101081 in used condition and cleaned up for testing. #2) a 350 smogger with fresh v/v grind # 9889338, (very similar to the 882 casting,) and #3) a TPI/TBI 14102187 with 3 angle v/v grind. Testing was corrected to 28” and done over a 4”bore and a 300 cfm hard edge restrictor plate

First up the HO head.
Valve lift CFM @28" HO 305 int.
0.05............. 25.5
0.1............... 84.2
0.2............... 103.9
0.3 ...............149.2
0.4 ...............162
0.5................159
0.6 ...............159

350 smogger Flow #s similarto a Dart SR
Valve Lift CFM @28' Smogger int.
0.05 ................21
0.1 ..................82.7
0.2 ..................108
0.3 ..................191
0.4 ..................192
0.5 ..................191
0.6

And finely The TPI/TBI
Valve Lift CFM @28" TBI int.
0.05 .................31.3
0.1 ...................88.4
0.2 ...................159.3
0.3 ...................192.6
0.4................... 233.3
0.5 ...................246
0.6................... 245.5

The TBI head with porting , bowl ported in a helix form enhancing cast form, opened up bowl roof.

Valve Lift CFM @28" TBI int.p
0.05 ................25
0.1.................. 88.4
0.2 ..................159.3
0.3.................. 192.6
0.4 ..................230
0.5.................. 248
0.6 ..................253

I Think whom ever designed the swirl port is one smart cookie

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Old 09-18-2013, 07:41 PM
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So the swirl port head outflows the L31 Vortec? Do you have the exhaust flow numbers too?
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:44 PM
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Except this contradicts all the other available flow tests... May want to check the bench.
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Old 09-18-2013, 09:11 PM
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The 187 casting head is not a `TPI `head. The TPI 350 L98 heads are 083 cast or 113 aluminum or 128 old aluminum

The only number that look right are the 350 smoggers `338` casting.

Post the raw as tested flow test and the as tested manometer readings.

The problem with the swirl port head is the swirl vane in the port works great at low rpm to
enduce strong swirl in the flow at low engine output. But at WOT high rpm there is way too much swirl.
Good for low rpm power and efficientcy but restricts limits high rpm power output.
Horsepower is limited.
But it has its place. its just not a big horsepower head.

if this flow test was done on a flowbench that is not the same as a Superflow flow bench , you must correct for weather too.

You obviously tested the heads at a much lower test pressure drop than 28`.
You won;t see the flow limiting effect of the swirl vane when tested at low test pressures.
as the port swirl induced by the vane is low.
Test them on a big bench that can test @28" and you will start to see the excessive swirl.

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 09-18-2013 at 09:20 PM.
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Old 09-18-2013, 09:54 PM
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I think fbird is implying "flow test correction" for using a different test pressure (not always accurate). If the bench was calibrated with the flow plate immediTely prior to teTing the heads that should rule out most weather effects.
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Old 09-19-2013, 02:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 View Post
The 187 casting head is not a `TPI `head.
The only number that look right are the 350 smoggers `338` casting.

You obviously tested the heads at a much lower test pressure drop than 28`.
You won;t see the flow limiting effect of the swirl vane when tested at low test pressures.
as the port swirl induced by the vane is low.
Test them on a big bench that can test @28" and you will start to see the excessive swirl.
I thought they were used on both engines, I stand corrected

I tested at 14" for peak flow which requires about 1 horse power and a min. 20 amp breaker, it's a decent amount.
I can easily pull 28" at low lift, at higher lift pressure drops as flow increases and I end up at about 14"
28" is the industry standard and represents about 1 atmosphere, but when does any engine ever pull an atmosphere? at the valve maybe halfway down the intake stroke for a split second?
The key to power is high velocity and volume, I don't think volume is an issue so how is velocity and swirl port causing a bad combination?
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Old 09-19-2013, 05:23 AM
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Larry Carley's article about porting and wet flow bench testing I do think is a game changer.

Cylinder Head Porting: Engine Builder
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Old 09-19-2013, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cridder View Post
28" is the industry standard and represents about 1 atmosphere, but when does any engine ever pull an atmosphere? at the valve maybe halfway down the intake stroke for a split second?
The key to power is high velocity and volume, I don't think volume is an issue so how is velocity and swirl port causing a bad combination?

The testing standard has little to nothing to do with what an engine pulls, though that can be a LOT higher than 28". What it does have to do with is an acceptable way to standardize testing parameters and results to allow a meaningful comparison. Since you're using no standard methods you really don't provide any meaningful data.

A well known story about David Vizard is how he used a basic shop vacuum to test for port flow improvements- noting that a decrease in pressure differential should correlate to an increase in flow. This is an "okay" method for doing testing on one head but it does not allow for any other comparisons. The other major fault with this test is that there was no calibration being done, so even these limited results could be unknowingly skewed.
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Old 09-19-2013, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Surfer View Post
So the swirl port head outflows the L31 Vortec? Do you have the exhaust flow numbers too?
The vortec has smaller ports, a lower port roof and only slightly more curtain area.
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Old 09-19-2013, 09:53 PM
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IIRC the 14102187 has 1.84" intake valves. Testing/data just does not support ~500 hp potentially or empirically from production as-cast 14102187 heads. Nor do 14102187 heads outperform production Vortec heads in peak or average power, all else being equal.
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Old 09-20-2013, 09:20 AM
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Is the 96-2003 Vortec 305 "520" "059" head considered a swirl head as it has the swirlk vane?

peace
Hog
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Old 09-20-2013, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cridder View Post
I thought they were used on both engines, I stand corrected

I tested at 14" for peak flow which requires about 1 horse power and a min. 20 amp breaker, it's a decent amount.
I can easily pull 28" at low lift, at higher lift pressure drops as flow increases and I end up at about 14"
28" is the industry standard and represents about 1 atmosphere, but when does any engine ever pull an atmosphere? at the valve maybe halfway down the intake stroke for a split second?
The key to power is high velocity and volume, I don't think volume is an issue so how is velocity and swirl port causing a bad combination?
The flow bench industry standard of 28 inches is of water not mercury. Given that atmospheric pressure is about 34 feet of water or 29.9 inches of mercury equals 14.7 pounds; 28 inches of water depression isn't anywhere near one atmosphere of pressure reduction.

Bogie
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Old 09-20-2013, 10:34 AM
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As simplistic as it sounds,I see guys all the time take a engine or head known to do one thing really well and try to change that into something else.Hot Rodding??. Well yes,but there are times you want to multiply that trait of what it does well.................................and call it a day.
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Old 09-20-2013, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbogie View Post
The flow bench industry standard of 28 inches is of water not mercury. Given that atmospheric pressure is about 34 feet of water or 29.9 inches of mercury equals 14.7 pounds; 28 inches of water depression isn't anywhere near one atmosphere of pressure reduction.

Bogie
How much is it?
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Old 09-20-2013, 08:32 PM
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[QUOTE=F-BIRD'88;The problem with the swirl port head is the swirl vane in the port works great at low rpm to
enduce strong swirl in the flow at low engine output. But at WOT high rpm there is way too much swirl.
Good for low rpm power and efficientcy but restricts limits high rpm power output.
.[/QUOTE]

So what is the too much swirl causing to happen?
If swirl reduces flow how is that?
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