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Old 04-26-2011, 01:54 PM
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Ford 302 Build for 1930 Ford Model A

This is my first post, I am new to the site.
I am putting together a 302 HO out of a 91 mustang to throw in a 1930 ford I am building, I am aiming for about 400 hp and I was wondering if anyone had suggestions for a relatively inexpensive top end? I am just going with a carb instead of the efi. It has a mild comp cam & hyper eutectic pistons. I was thinking about going with AFR heads, but someone told me that is overkill and they are expensive, patriot heads were suggested. I also have to pick a decent intake and carb too.

Thanks in advance!
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Old 04-26-2011, 04:01 PM
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I would suggest stroking it to a 347 or going with a 351W outright, your asking a tall order for a 302 as 400 horses is 100 over the cubic inches. Give it more cubes and you`ll reach your power goal easier and safer.
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Old 04-26-2011, 04:15 PM
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Agree with DV, but will add this....you don't need 400 hp. Begin with a 351 and build it mildly, with 9.0:1 static compression ratio and a mild cam (204-214 degrees duration @0.050" tappet lift) for around 325-350 hp. You will be able to run the car every day, reliably, on cheapo pump gas with good manifold vacuum to operate power brakes and other vacuum-operated accessories.
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Old 04-26-2011, 08:26 PM
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400Hp out of an OEM 5.0 Ford is a tall order without some pretty high end parts (and a Ford Racing block). Since it's already a roller cam block, there are several good Ford camshafts along with an Edelbrock RPM intake and your favorite 600 cfm carb will make a very nice 275-300Hp engine that will move a 25-2800# Ford 'A' very nicely. But, a few words of caution - there are several things that need to be done to convert it from EFI to carb./Fox body car configuration. Not difficult but just line those ducks up before you "throw" it into an 'A' chassis - which are my other words. It looks easy, but that chassis/engine combo does need good planning as well. It's a tight fit to get everything situated and usable.

This is at about 90%:



Dave W
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Old 04-27-2011, 09:11 AM
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Thanks for the replies guys this is my first attempt at a build I am doing a lot of reading but nothing teaches better than experience right?

The car will be pretty light, I doubt I will need 400 I was just spit balling.
I would take a drop in power to keep the price down a bit, I want to get her running and driving before I chase performance too much.

What do you guys think of AFR vs Patriot heads? I already have the engine half built so I would like to finish this one up, perhaps later if I want more out of it I will swap to a 351 or something later and sell this one.

According to this article 400 hp out of this engine is relatively easy with AFR heads but I have been informed that this is not a good article:
http://www.airflowresearch.com/artic...le087/A-P1.htm

Also any other carb, intake combos you can suggest or is a victor Jr. Air gap intake and a Holley 650 double pumper the way to go like was suggested by my friend?

Dave, that looks like you have a pretty sweet setup going, any tips on the ifs? I am building for the first time so any pointers would be awesome
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Old 04-27-2011, 09:47 AM
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he is a link to a popular tv show you may find interesting.

i tend to disagree with others that say 400 is a stretch for a 5.0 h.o

its all in the heads and installed height/cc of your pistons.

you wont have to replace the rotating assm like they do in the vid the stock rods and crank are stout enough for 400 street hp that will stay under 5800rpm


http://www.spike.com/full-episodes/b...eason-1-ep-501

Last edited by mud bros; 04-27-2011 at 09:53 AM.
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Old 04-27-2011, 10:14 AM
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That IFS is part of a full TCI chassis that I decided was a lot better then trying to fix up an 80+ year old worn out original that was possibly full of cracks plus had more holes then a Swiss cheese. That TCI IFS or a Heidts is, IMO great for a full fendered car - a straight axle looks best without fenders.

As far as which engine - my favorite is a 351W, though I used a 5.0 crate motor for this build. Since you have already started building the 5.0, why not finish and use it until it needs to be replaced. To build a 351 - you will virtually have to start all over with parts. The 302 heads will work, but CR may be too high for gas station fuel. The camshaft will interchange. Nothing else significant will work. Gets real expensive to buy a new intake, distributor. If you need more horsepower, then you go stroker on a 302 - up to 347.

Then you get into other interferences on a car - a 351W is taller, wider and 75+/- pounds heavier. This might mean redoing the exhaust, the steering and maybe the firewall plus possibly the front spring(s).

Opinion on air gap intakes - they look pretty interesting, but I'm not convinced that they are worth the extra money. The air-fuel mixture needs a residence time to transfer heat - and to my thinking, it isn't there. An Edelbrock Performer RPM will work wonders. Carb size - a 650 isn't needed - a 550-600CFM for a street driven car will work just fine. Use this formula:

Size=CID x RPM/33456xVE

CID = 302
RPM = 5000 (and maybe to 6000 once in a while)
3456 = constant
VE = Volumetric Efficiency (and 80% is high on a mild engine)

302x5000/3456x.80
1510000/2765 = 546 cfm. At 6000 you could use the 650, but then you have to weigh how often you would turn that speed. To me, a 600 cfm will be a good choice.

There will be others here that will advocate much more carb, but bigger isn't always better, especially for a mild engine.

As far as heads - there are a bunch of good ones, just be aware that for a nice runner, you don't need an all out racing head. You could even use a set of Ford's GT40P that were supplied on Explorers.

A word of caution as you build this engine. Many folks only can see all out performance and a weekly trip to the drags and love to spend your money. If that's what you want to do, then buy the best you can afford. If this is going to be a cruiser, with an occasional between stop lights run (nahhh - we NEVER would do that, would we) you don't need anything more then good parts and reliability. Driving a very highly modified engined car on the street isn't much fun after a short while

The above - not only my opinion, but from my personal experiences. Others folks - they'll differ.

Dave W
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Old 04-27-2011, 10:37 AM
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If what you have is a good sound solid motor I would just run it..in a lite car they go good and you will have lots of other things to spend money on in order to get that car finished and on the street..

Sam
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I have tried most all of it and now do what is known to work..
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Old 04-27-2011, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneMoreTime
If what you have is a good sound solid motor I would just run it..in a lite car they go good and you will have lots of other things to spend money on in order to get that car finished and on the street..

Sam
Thats what I am thinking, I may even get the stock heads tested quick and clean em up and throw em on for nowtoo

Dave, I have an 86 cougar with the 5.0 for a parts car, I think I am going to try and fab up an ifs front end too just use the components from the coug, I like the old style look up front but ifs is just soo much better, all I really have to start with now is a boxed frame, a body, engine and the parts car
I do like that the 5.0 is lighter too and since the car is mostly gonna be a street machine I wont be using race parts, the afr heads I was looking at were the 165cc I think, for a carb I had originally figured 600 cfm too I highly doubt I will be hitting 6000 rpm haha after building er my self I guarantee she will get babied

Last edited by jkeckss; 04-27-2011 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 04-27-2011, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkeckss

Dave, I have an 86 cougar with the 5.0 for a parts car, I think I am going to try and fab up an ifs front end too just use the components from the coug, I like the old style look up front but ifs is just soo much better, all I really have to start with now is a boxed frame, a body, engine and the parts car
Probably not a real good idea using those Cougar front end parts. Those 'A' arms are clunky plus the strut/springs are way too much and are not a good design for a small bodied, separate fendered car like an 'A', the tread is far too wide, opening yourself to major handling problems after (if?) you get the installation figured out. Using the 8.8 out of the rear would probably be about the only item I would consider - and since it's probably something like a 3.08 ratio, good for fuel mileage
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Old 04-27-2011, 06:15 PM
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I like how you think Ireland. I`m another that don`t believe the air gaps are all they`re made out to be. And I surely agree you want to make more power you use more cubes.
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Old 04-27-2011, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneMoreTime
If what you have is a good sound solid motor I would just run it..in a lite car they go good and you will have lots of other things to spend money on in order to get that car finished and on the street..

Sam
X2 with Sam on this.


Cole
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Old 04-27-2011, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eloc431962
X2 with Sam on this.


Cole

I would agree - that is except for the fact he said the motor was already in progress with a mild cam and pistons based on his OP - or else I'm misreading and it is a little contradictory

Dave W
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Old 04-28-2011, 04:53 AM
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For what it will cost you to get that kind of HP, I'd go ahead and either Turbo it or supercharge it...the stock engine.
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Old 04-28-2011, 05:42 AM
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Supercharge it with a Weiand 142 blower. Home port the stock 5 liter HO heads.
Low sub 9:1 compression ratio is best. (allows more/most boost on 92pump gas)

Step the cam up a bit, if its small . 214 to 220@.050. 112-114 lsa

750cfm carb. Easy 400hp. big torque.
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