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Old 09-17-2009, 08:32 PM
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Ford 351 C vs chevy 350

Hello guys was talking to my dad tonight and we was talking about old time muscle cars etc. Well he used to own a 69 Ford mustang with a 351 cleveland boss in it and I have a 86 chevy s10 with a chevy 350 and was talking about old vs new stuff such as cylinder heads etc. I don't know much about the 351 cleveland boss engines. Well he is a ford man and I am a chevy fan so you know how that goes. He said my truck does not have the power that the old cleveland had but I said it would be a close match but he said the old mustang would get me pretty good. But to guys on here what is your opinion on engine build and what motor would make the most power and torque.

Ok I don't have all the specs on the old 351 cleveland but here is what I know. 351 cleveland boss was bored .030 over,10.75 or 11.1 compression ratio. Cam was a crane fireball and it was around 240ish @ 50 with over around 520 lift or so on both intake and exhaust and was a hydraullic flat tappet cam could be a little bigger but not much more then that. It had flat top pistons and the cylinder heads was the closed chamber biggest size valves that the cleveland boss heads came with and they where fully hand ported and gasket matched. Intake was a dual plain of some sort and it had a holley double pumper carb.The bottom assembly was what came from the factory. It had a points type system with a high voltage coil and the engine was built by my dad who had done tons. Transmission was a 4 speed that's all I know.

Ok my engine specs chevy 350,
Lunati Voodoo hydraullic roller cam 231/239 @ 50 with 535/550 lift
9.6 compression ratio
Dart iron eagle heads 200 cc 2.02/1.60 valves fully ported and gasket matched
Edelbrock rpm performer intake air gap
Quick fuel 650 double pumper carb
Flat top pistons.
Block and heads decked
HEI with 65000 volt coil and performance module etc.
Turbo 350 with 3500 stall

I know taking off the mustang would get me cause it would stick and go no spinning tires but my s10 it burns tires all night long. Mainly its motor wise. I am thinking my engine build up though not as much as compression with all the more modern aftermarkets on my engine compared to the old factory stuff the 351c had I figure I should have more power and torque with all the more updated and higerflowing heads I have. Do the old cleveland heads actually flow that good? Thanks guys please be gentle.
Eric

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Old 09-17-2009, 09:00 PM
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The old iron 4 Barrel Cleveland heads really are THAT good, they will make a ported oval port Chevy BBC head cry. If the Mustang driver can get off the line without smoking the tires, you are gonna get smoked.

I'm a diehard Chevy guy too, but I have seen the Big cleveland heads run and they are impressive on a 351 cube or bigger motor. Comes down to if you are brave enough to rev the engine, cause it will just keep making power the higher you go. The 2 Barrel Cleveland is nothing by comparison, neither is the 4 Barrel 351 Windsor from the '69 Mach 1.

The Ford engine I would like to build would be a 392 or 408 stroker "Clevor" Windsor block with 4V Cleveland heads and a solid roller cam. 700hp would be within reach naturally aspirated.
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Old 09-18-2009, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric32
Hello guys was talking to my dad tonight and we was talking about old time muscle cars etc. Well he used to own a 69 Ford mustang with a 351 cleveland boss in it and I have a 86 chevy s10 with a chevy 350 and was talking about old vs new stuff such as cylinder heads etc. I don't know much about the 351 cleveland boss engines. Well he is a ford man and I am a chevy fan so you know how that goes. He said my truck does not have the power that the old cleveland had but I said it would be a close match but he said the old mustang would get me pretty good. But to guys on here what is your opinion on engine build and what motor would make the most power and torque.

Ok I don't have all the specs on the old 351 cleveland but here is what I know. 351 cleveland boss was bored .030 over,10.75 or 11.1 compression ratio. Cam was a crane fireball and it was around 240ish @ 50 with over around 520 lift or so on both intake and exhaust and was a hydraullic flat tappet cam could be a little bigger but not much more then that. It had flat top pistons and the cylinder heads was the closed chamber biggest size valves that the cleveland boss heads came with and they where fully hand ported and gasket matched. Intake was a dual plain of some sort and it had a holley double pumper carb.The bottom assembly was what came from the factory. It had a points type system with a high voltage coil and the engine was built by my dad who had done tons. Transmission was a 4 speed that's all I know.

Ok my engine specs chevy 350,
Lunati Voodoo hydraullic roller cam 231/239 @ 50 with 535/550 lift
9.6 compression ratio
Dart iron eagle heads 200 cc 2.02/1.60 valves fully ported and gasket matched
Edelbrock rpm performer intake air gap
Quick fuel 650 double pumper carb
Flat top pistons.
Block and heads decked
HEI with 65000 volt coil and performance module etc.
Turbo 350 with 3500 stall

I know taking off the mustang would get me cause it would stick and go no spinning tires but my s10 it burns tires all night long. Mainly its motor wise. I am thinking my engine build up though not as much as compression with all the more modern aftermarkets on my engine compared to the old factory stuff the 351c had I figure I should have more power and torque with all the more updated and higerflowing heads I have. Do the old cleveland heads actually flow that good? Thanks guys please be gentle.
Eric
Not as fantastic as people remember, this engine had a lot of potential and a lot of flaws. The intake could suck in pets and kids, the exhaust side just sucked. To get the exhaust out took a lot of head mods.

The power came in at stratospheric revs, unfortunately the lube system and bottom end wasn't up to it and having the bottom end come out was pretty common till people figured out how to mod the oiling system and girdle the main caps, then it just pulled the block apart but that took awhile.

In stock form the 351C can be tamed by a decent GM Gen I 350 or Chrysler 340/360. Rebuilt for full up competition is a different story, there the 351C is the force to be reckoned with, but you've gotta be a fricken Rocket Scientist to build one at that level. Still, Ford put the basic elements there, if you know how to use it, it'll put you in the winners circle.

As for your S-10, I suggest you get and read some books on chassis and suspension design, the wheel spin can be tamed. But just dropping a 350 in the nose of one of these things leaves a lot to be desired. Too many guys concentrate on engine power, but you ain't goin' no-where if you can't connect the power to the ground. Often the solution to going faster is less power when you find yourself in the situation where all it does in burn butyl.

Bogie
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Old 09-18-2009, 04:42 PM
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Wow guys thanks for the info about the old cleveland motors. I have not heard too much about them expcet about the one my dad used to have in his old 69 mustang wich he sold several years ago. I know my s10 needs some suspension stuff done. I was mainly wondering about motor comparisons but man I guess the clevaland motors must of been pretty stout with just factory stuff then. O well I guess there is always something Ford made better then chevy and vice versa. Thanks guys
Eric
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