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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2008, 07:19 AM
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The reason diesel is more expensive than gasoline is the road tax imposed by states on it for the trucking industry. They raised the tax across the board instead of just putting it on road diesel. Auto diesel should be available to the public at the same tax rate as gasoline.

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2008, 07:26 AM
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I always enjoy finding out something new...according to the various books, they do use the 352 rods as opposed to the 390 ones. I can only imagine that they had a large supply left over when they quit making 352s, they do use a unique piston from the 390 as well in order to have the correct compression height. Although I machined many 360 engine parts back in the 70s I never paid much attention to them (the 428 in my avatar should be a clue), so I now know that you need pistons and rods to convert a 360-390, as well as the crank, instead of my earlier assumption that they used 390 rods with just different pistons. It was good to know though.... I am in the process of building a short stroke big bore FE engine, so that will come in to play.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2008, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodz428
I always enjoy finding out something new...according to the various books, they do use the 352 rods as opposed to the 390 ones. I can only imagine that they had a large supply left over when they quit making 352s, they do use a unique piston from the 390 as well in order to have the correct compression height. Although I machined many 360 engine parts back in the 70s I never paid much attention to them (the 428 in my avatar should be a clue), so I now know that you need pistons and rods to convert a 360-390, as well as the crank, instead of my earlier assumption that they used 390 rods with just different pistons. It was good to know though.... I am in the process of building a short stroke big bore FE engine, so that will come in to play.
the pistons used in a 360 are 4v 390 pistons, just finished doing a 390 4v and pistons say on the box 360 or 390 4v. have converted a 360 to 390 early on useing 390 crank and rods reused 360 pistons, which had 390 4v castinto pisto. cliff
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2008, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cliff tate
the pistons used in a 360 are 4v 390 pistons, just finished doing a 390 4v and pistons say on the box 360 or 390 4v. have converted a 360 to 390 early on useing 390 crank and rods reused 360 pistons, which had 390 4v castinto pisto. cliff
I am just going by the piston catalogs I have, they list separate numbers. If you add the dimensions, it doesn't add up. The 352 rods are only .060 longer than the other FE rods and the stroke difference is .140 per( half stroke difference) that would makea deficit of .080 on the piston, meaning it would be waaay down in the cylinder. You can use the 390 pistons, but they aren't the same and will result in a real slug with maybe a 7-1 compression.The piston catalogs list( all of the 4 I have) the 390 as having a pin height of 1.66 and the 360 has a 1.76 height (352 height), that with the difference in part numbers would indicate that you are very incorrect in your assertion...regardless of what you may believe or the box may have said. As I said, you can use 390 pistons, because of the bore, but the low pin height will make for a real slug... before responding again, you might research the numbers like I have...then you'll likely not.
If you had use REAL 360 pistons in the 390 conversion, they would probably been hitting the heads, .100 is a lot more than normal deck clearance and unless you ran a really thick gasket it would have probably stopped at TDC. The pistons would surely have stuck out the top of the block. Now...someone may have used some 390 pistons in a 360 rebuild, but that doesn't make them the same. Once again READ the tech data in any piston catalog, F-M,Sterling,Sealed Power, Silvolite...they all have the same specs.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2008, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodz428
The 410 and 428 were externally balanced for simplicity I would imagine. It was easier than trying to get the weight added to the crank and fit inside the block. So they just tagged it on to the flywheel/flexplate and added a hatchet weight behind the damper on the SCJ( for the extra weight of the 427 style rods).
The comment about the 360/390 rods being different and pistons the same doesn't add up dimensionally, the book I have in the house list both the rod and piston being different. I will look in the other material in the shop. It is unusual for a manufacturer to produce 2 different irems when one will do. I was sure that the rods were the same, for manufacturing costs, and that the pistons were different. Since I don't do many 360s anymore , I am operating from my memory of 30+ years ago, so it may be fading,LOL.
re 360 390, just got back frome lordco(the parts store i use 390 #304p that is 19674v 360 lite truck 304p, i also measured a 352 pin bore to top 1.310, 390 is 1.354so a diff of .040. ido know that 360s have low comp how much .040 will do is a question. if you are useing a older catelog the 361 edsel had a higher pin to top.power house in bakesfield show 390 and 360 use the same piston, that is car to lite truck. cliff
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2008, 09:22 PM
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lots of good info, thanks you guys so much, the more people that put in there 2 cents the more everyone learns
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 05-04-2008, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cliff tate
if you are useing a older catelog the 361 edsel had a higher pin to top.power house in bakesfield show 390 and 360 use the same piston, that is car to lite truck. cliff
NOPE, all current within 4-5 years, however they do correspond EXACTLY with the older ones I have also. Just for general info...the 360/390 use the same head...Soooo a 360 WOULD have a lower compression with the exact same deck height( which usually is within several thousands) as a 390 because there is less to compress..pretty simple logic. Your measurements must be from the top of the pin bore and measured with a ruler because they are no where near specs. Plus, the measurements you gave were opposite of the real world...the 352/360 have a higher pin height than the 390 and you have them the reverse.
In a 2002 Silv-0-lite catalog, one I randomly grabbed from the files...a '68-'76 360 ( much later than the Edsel 361) piston # is 1131 with the 1.76 pin height, a '68-'76 390 uses a 1139 piston with a 1.66 pin height..once again your numbers don't add up. Finally Ford's part numbers are different with the 390 using a R suffix and the 360 using an A suffix, so what you are saying is that even Ford uses a different number for the same piston...you'll have to do better than that. I suspect that you put a 390 crank into a 390 you thought was a 360 and that's why the pistons were the same.
I will look at my piston cross reference catalog, although you didn't mention the manufacturer the number is a pretty standard number, I'm willing to bet your parts guy is very uninformed. I hate it when I have to get out my parts catalogs, but that's one thing nice about being a machinist for years...I have them. There is NO catalog that list them the same, Sterling(395P for the 360 and 304NP for the 390). The Federal Mogul book listed as one 360 option a piston with similar characteristics as the 390, but tstated the compression would be lower than 8-1, and it too had a different number than the 390. I couldn't locate the number you posted so there may be a company that sells the same one for both applications, that doesn't haowever mean that they are the same.. at least from Ford and that is what I am referring to and many piston manufacturers make pistons that are unique to each engine. As I mentioned earlier, you can use the same piston, but because of the difference in pin height the compression will be much less and cause a lack of power if used in a 360 instead of the correct ones.
The pin height is not the same in all the catalogs, however they all show a taller one for the 360. Some of that is a result of a variance made for oversize pistons to keep the compression from escalating when bored. You will find that most aftermarket (stock replacement type) pistons have a little lower compression height for each oversize they go up. That helps allow for head/block milling as well as the increase in displacement.
Just to convolute the issue some The 352 has a taller pin height than the 360 being 1.8xx( depending on which model it varied some). So technicly if you could get an oversize piston for a 352 that you could use in a .010 360 block, you'd have a lot more compression than what Ford was even building them. Of course the 360 served most of it's life in a unleaded age and gas was getting lower in octane.

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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 05-04-2008, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68novafan
lots of good info, thanks you guys so much, the more people that put in there 2 cents the more everyone learns
My error i did get the piston hight crossed 352 had higher deck from top of piston by.040, mr 428 as far as me assem a 390 in error of a 360 you are rather ignorent, i have 38 years working with engines and my measurements are with vearnear calipers. i am getting my info from actual iron not a comic book. also this site is not for insulting users it is for sharing info why dont you phone power house at 661 861 0125 they will supply the same piston for a 390 4v as a 360 lite truck. my reserch is i am doing a 352 and haveing trouble getting pistons and local machine shop sugests useing 390 4vs and boreing the 352 .050 .so i am getting info frome a fellow machinist and ther parts man plus recently ordered pistons from power house, for use in a 390 or 360 LITE truck. the 390 is in and running, deck hight was in spec.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 05-20-2008, 08:22 PM
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well my A.D.D. has settled down and i have purchased a 1972 truck 390. going to get a refresh and the droped down in. more reasearch on what to do it the 390 is underway. got to love the internet and the unlimited amount of info that it offers.
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Old 07-16-2010, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by 68novafan
what all is involved with the 390 crank swap? is it cost affective?
throwing a 460 in the beast would be way too much dough for an old dump truck you would have to find a whole different transmission along with the bellhousing go with the FE you could put a 427 crrank in it and make it a 410 to make it one hell of a stroker, but really just put a 390 crank but internal parts DO NOT MIX like push rods, connecting rods etc. but external do like heads, intake etc. plus water sleaves are small on the 460 with such a big bore, they tend to over heat rather easily. trust me it wil save you alot of money in the long run reasearch the FE family alittle more ask some old ford dudes about the FEs you can pump out over 1000 hp outta these engines they really are something else, good luck!
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2010, 10:05 AM
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ford ses

some miss info hear,1 427 crank same stroke as 390,410 is 428 crank in 390. 360 to 390 use crank and rods frome 390,use 360 pistons as they ar 4v 390 pistons to start. buy a ford interchange book and avoid a disaster. good luck
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