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Old 05-24-2005, 04:32 PM
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Ford 4.6L Cam Position Sensor Trigger Orientation

Iím in the process of building a fuel injected 351 Clevor. Itís almost finished, but I have a few more pieces that I need to fabricate including a trigger for the cam position sensor.

The ECU Iím using is an EEC-V from a í95 T-bird with a 4.6L SOHC, so I need to know where, in the engine rotation, the trigger needs to pass the cam position sensor. I know the 5.0L motors that used the EEC-Vís need this event to occur around 26 degrees after TDC, but Iím not sure if the 4.6Lís are different. Iíd really like to know before I start cutting.

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Old 05-25-2005, 05:11 PM
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... anybody?
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Old 05-26-2005, 01:28 AM
aka Duke of URL
 
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You are too far advanced for me...

Maybe -this guy- can help you.
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Old 07-05-2005, 08:37 PM
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Thanks for the reply, KULTULZ; I know Iím a few months late on that and I'm Sorry.

In case anyone else runs into this question in the future, the EEC expects the trigger to pass the cam position sensor @TDC.

I went ahead and found it out the hard way - by pulling the timing cover off of a junked 4.6L. That REALLY wasnít fun at all. It took four hours and a whole bunch a' bloody knuckles.
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Old 07-05-2005, 09:56 PM
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Glad you got it figured out. There are special mountings (aftermarket) for the sensor in that you can move the sensor to change base timing in case you didn't know.

Did you get it to fire yet? Why did you decide to use a crank trigger off an EEC-V? Coil packs?

Can you describe the modification(s) to the balancer? Type of FI? Custom or WINDSOR modified?
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Old 07-06-2005, 06:51 PM
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Iím still piecing everything together right now. My machinist is still working on the block and heads, so itíll be a little while longer before Iím ready to test fire.

The balancer is a 28 oz. piece that I ordered from Jegs. For the trigger wheel, I had to order a balancer from a ~í96 Ford Explorer with a 5.0L; the trigger wheel is pressed onto the back. It will be bolted to the back of the balancer so that when the engine is @TDC the VR sensor is pointing to the fifth tooth after the missing tooth on the wheel. For the cam position sensor, I will use the old mechanical fuel pump equipment. Iíll slip the sensor through the hole in the side of the timing chain cover and cut the pump eccentric down so that it passes the sensor only @TDC. Iíll post pictures along with descriptions of this stuff in my project journal as I finish it.

As for the rest of the injection equipment, it is mostly stock 4.6L stuff from a í95 T-bird (with the exception of a 90mm Ford Lightning MAF, 30# injectors, Trick Flow 90mm intake, Accufab 90mm TB, Accel DFI fuel rails, and a Mallory fuel pump). I had to buy a TwEECer to make it all work. If Iím lucky, this whole combination will give me somewhere around 500 hpÖ if Iím not, all itíll give me is a 3200 lb paperweight.

Keep an eye on my project journal, Iíll try to update as I finish projects. I should have pictures of that balancer up later this evening.
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Old 07-07-2005, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Keep an eye on my project journal, Iíll try to update as I finish projects. I should have pictures of that balancer up later this evening.
ABSOLUTELY FASCINATING!

Are you a FORD TECH by any chance?
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Old 07-08-2005, 09:15 PM
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Fraid not but I wish; this conversion would be a lot easier if I was. I enjoy playing with this sort aí thing in my spare time. The reliability that I should get out of the conversion aught to be worth it. Plus thereís the satisfaction that Iíll get that no one has tried this combination before, at least as far as I know.
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Old 07-08-2005, 11:05 PM
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Clevor with EFI

Best of luck with that. Ive been around a few Clevors and you must have to have done some serious machine work to get ports to match up etc. fabricating adapter plates can be a major pain. Would love to see how it turns out,
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Old 07-10-2005, 10:31 PM
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Thanks, I can use all the luck I can get right now.

I lucked out with the adapter plates; thereís a place in Indiana that makes Ďem. The ports line up fairly well with the 2V Cleveland heads. The water passages are a little more difficult.

Iíll update my progress as often as I can in my project journal. Hopefully Iíll have the parts back from the machinist by the end of the month; Iíll have some good pictures of the engine not long after that.
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Old 12-30-2005, 10:28 PM
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351 Clevor

Just wondering what pistons you are using in the clevor? I am planning one for my street rod and need to locate a set. (low compression ratio) I am using a 90's 351 marine block and 400 m heads. I have a B&A track boss intake. I would consider Australian heads if I could find a pair.
Thanks for any help
hotrodengineer
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Old 01-01-2006, 01:46 AM
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This following paragraph is an excerpt from the 95 Tbird shop manual. This book does not show a cam sensor on the 4.6L, only the crank sensor. Do you have the OBD I or the OBD II system? The OBD I system uses a cylinder identification (CID) in the left side of the timing cover. I'm haviing a hard time understanding exactly are you planning to do? Use the CID sensor wiring on the crank sensor in the 5.0, or are you refering to the crank sensor?

Crankshaft Position Sensor
The crankshaft position sensor (CKP sensor) (6C315) operates as follows:

The crankshaft position sensor is a variable reluctance sensor triggered by a 36-minus-1 tooth trigger pulse wheel located on the crankshaft (6303) inside the engine front cover (6019) .
The sine wave type signal generated from the crankshaft position sensor provides two types of information. One is the position of the crankshaft in 10 degree increments and the other is the crankshaft speed (rpm).
The ignition control module (ICM) (12K072) uses this information with the spark advance information from the powertrain control module (PCM) (12A650) to determine ignition coil turn On and turn Off times.
Base ignition timing is referenced to the position of the crankshaft position sensor and is set at 10 Ī 2 degrees before top dead center (BTDC) and is not adjustable.

Last edited by 2-manytoyzs; 01-01-2006 at 02:33 AM.
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Old 01-20-2006, 10:02 PM
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Hotrodengineer, sorry but I canít help you much. The pistons I am working with are domed and will yield a compression of 10.5:1 with the open chambers. They are KBís, part #117. I know KB also makes a flat-top, but I donít know the part #.

2-manytoyzs, I ended up switching computers. Itís an OBD-II out of a í96 T-bird now. The plan is to get the computer to operate properly with the 5.8L Clevor. To this end, I set up the crank positioning hardware as similarly as possible to the 4.6L. The trigger wheel was bolted to the balancer and a sensor and boss were attached to the timing chain cover to interact with the wheel. The CID, which is what this thread was originally inquiering about, was installed in a similar fashion. I modified the fuel pump eccentric to function as a trigger and installed another sensor and boss through the fuel pump opening of the timing chain cover to engage it.

The goal was to mimic the 4.6L sensor application as closely as possible. I would tentatively call it a success. Unfortunately, there have been few of those in this project.
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