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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2013, 03:57 PM
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Strange day, weird occurrences...

Checked the clutch stack-up as per the link above, things are not perfectly level, but within 0.009", and I settled on a 0.020" shim. Now soaking the clutches... Put the non-clutch half of the carrier together and managed to break one of the concave spider gear shims. I'm hoping QP will send me one. So that's on hold.

Started on the pinion and found the following. Had to hammer/pull the yoke on/off every time. Although it gets easier each time, I still need to pull it on with the nut and use a puller to get it off. My solid spacer assembly (0.443" bare and 0.017", 0.020", & 0.041" shims), even without shims, was too thick to give the right preload. I ended up turning 0.015" off the face and using the 0.017" shim to get 22 in/# preload using my old (sanded slip-fit) bearings and races. Will this change when I swap to the new bearings & races?

The end of the pinion is marked 1.028", is this measured from the end of the pinion to the carrier bearing surface? Is this a "must" or just something to start with?

Think I found a use for a few of my old Buick turbo 6 head studs, they'll make a great ring gear alignment/assembly tool.

Thanks!

Russ
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2013, 04:06 PM
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I don't understand why you used the loose fit bearings instead of putting the new bearings on to start with. There is no need to install and remove the bearings other than shimming the spacer, and you should be using your press to remove and install the pinion for that job, including removing the yoke. Yes, the preload will change when you change the bearings.

The marked pinion depth is almost always just a good place to start. It's always been off by around .003 when I tried to use it.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2013, 05:17 AM
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I don't understand why you used the loose fit bearings instead of putting the new bearings on to start with. There is no need to install and remove the bearings other than shimming the spacer, and you should be using your press to remove and install the pinion for that job, including removing the yoke. Yes, the preload will change when you change the bearings.

The marked pinion depth is almost always just a good place to start. It's always been off by around .003 when I tried to use it.
Thanks. I guess being a first timer, I'm doing too much "internet research". After further consideration, I can at least install both races and the rear bearing without making things too difficult. I'll start redoing this in a few minutes...

Do you see any issues with my reasoning on the 0.020" clutch pack shim? The depth of the hub was 0.491", the feeler gauge reading averaged 0.021", which gives 0.470". Subtracting the Ford spec (?) of 0.455" leaves 0.015", which should be a bit on the tight side. BTW, the stock shim was 0.005" with the old clutches and steels.

Thanks for you help (and patience!)

Russ
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2013, 06:10 AM
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I don't set the clutches like that. I put a shim in and assemble the differential without the springs, then stick it on an axle stub in a vice and turn it. If the resistance is too high I use a thinner shim. If it isn't enough then I use a thicker shim. When the resistance is where I want it then I put the springs in and call it good enough. You can't assemble one of these as tight as you do a Eaton Posi. If you get it too tight then it will pop and growl when turning a corner.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2013, 07:18 PM
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I don't set the clutches like that. I put a shim in and assemble the differential without the springs, then stick it on an axle stub in a vice and turn it. If the resistance is too high I use a thinner shim. If it isn't enough then I use a thicker shim. When the resistance is where I want it then I put the springs in and call it good enough. You can't assemble one of these as tight as you do a Eaton Posi. If you get it too tight then it will pop and growl when turning a corner.
Being as how I'm a total newb and have zero experience setting up any kind of clutch unit, will the method in the above link(s) work?


Quote:
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I don't understand why you used the loose fit bearings instead of putting the new bearings on to start with. There is no need to install and remove the bearings other than shimming the spacer, and you should be using your press to remove and install the pinion for that job, including removing the yoke. Yes, the preload will change when you change the bearings.

The marked pinion depth is almost always just a good place to start. It's always been off by around .003 when I tried to use it.
Don't know why I was stressing over not installing the new bearings, it was much easier than I thought. BTW, my old "slip-fit" bearings worked great as a mandrel for pressing! Just 0.001" in shims makes a big difference with the solid spacer. I ended up with a 0.456" spacer and 27 in-lbs preload (0.455" was 40# and 0.457" was 0#). I originally thought my shim pack had 3 shims, but there were really 7 total, they were stuck together pretty good! Still couldn't finish the job, as the pinion seal in my kit was too large. QP is sending me the correct seal (they are great to deal with).

Russ
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2013, 05:59 AM
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I've never tried that method of setting the clutches before. I know that the Ford Trac Lock is pretty touchy about the clutch preload. Just a little too tight and it's going to make noise.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2013, 04:09 PM
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Not a good day...

BGH,

I got my parts last night. This am, I added the slinger and pinion seal, did the lube, sealant, and lock-tite, rattled the pinion nut on and now have 42 in/lbs preload when it was previously at 27. So I diddled the shims (again) adding 0.001" and am now at 12 in/lbs. That's good. Set the pinion depth to 1.028" as per markings on the pinion, but it took 0.064" of shims (0.020"stock)! Got the clutch pack together but had a h$ll of a time compressing it while combining the two halves. Ended up using 5 of the old ring gear bolts with nuts & washers to compress it, but it seemed as if the OD of one half was larger than the ID of the other. Once together. it seems as if it will never come apart again. Pulled on the ring gear OK, put the carrier in the housing and set the backlash at 0.007". Tried running a pattern, but of course, the pinion was out too far. Took out 0.020" and still too far out. Took out another 0.018" and now it binds up part way through a rev. Checked the runout and the ring is 0.003" out. Then checked the carrier and it's got 0.012" wobble. The gap between the ring gear and carrier varies about 0.015".

Is this worth saving? I'm feeling I should just chunk it all and buy a locker...

Russ
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2013, 05:22 PM
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So are you saying that the ring gear is not pulled all the way down on the flange? The 2 halves of the differential case are made to be a press fit, so that is not a problem. Did these 2 parts fot together completely?

IF yo decide to look into a locker take a look at the Grizley locker from Randy's Ring & Pinion. They claim to have fixed some of the problems that the Detroit Lockers had. Let me warn you in advance that they may have drilled the holes for the ring gear bolts too large. For some crazy reason they said that they drill them for 1/2 inch bolts instead of the 7/16 bolts that they should be drilled for. This caused me some problems with a Yukon Dura Grip.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 04-24-2013, 08:59 AM
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So are you saying that the ring gear is not pulled all the way down on the flange? The 2 halves of the differential case are made to be a press fit, so that is not a problem. Did these 2 parts fot together completely?

IF yo decide to look into a locker take a look at the Grizley locker from Randy's Ring & Pinion. They claim to have fixed some of the problems that the Detroit Lockers had. Let me warn you in advance that they may have drilled the holes for the ring gear bolts too large. For some crazy reason they said that they drill them for 1/2 inch bolts instead of the 7/16 bolts that they should be drilled for. This caused me some problems with a Yukon Dura Grip.
The recess in the billet half was 0.200" while the factory half stands 0.260" tall. This leaves about a 0.060" gap between the ring gear and the outer edge of the billet (clutch) half with the gear pulled on all the way. I can check this with a feeler gauge and it varies some 0.015" around the perimeter. I may have warped one or both halves pulling them together with the old ring gear bolts and some nuts. It was really hard going and may take some brute force to get them apart again.

You say the case halves are a press fit, is that necessary? If I can get this thing apart, I was gonna pull the carrier bearings, chuck it in my lathe and turn the spider gear half a few thou to make the fit a bit easier. And of course, check the individual parts for runout...

I have an ex-NASCAR locker in my Maverick that I got on E-Bay for ~$250. My only complaint is the bang when making a RH turn. Left turns and the normal clacking don't bother me, but that blasted bang scares the h%ll out of every time!

Russ
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 04-24-2013, 09:07 AM
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Torquing the ring gear bolts should have pulled everything together, but you might have shaved off a little bit of metal when you pulled the halves together. This might have got between them and could be holding them apart. When you get ready to disassemble it put it in the press with the gear case facing down. Support it around the edge of the clutch case and stick a bar through the hole in the center through the axle gear and press against the cross shaft. That should seperate them.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 04-24-2013, 01:12 PM
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Torquing the ring gear bolts should have pulled everything together, but you might have shaved off a little bit of metal when you pulled the halves together. This might have got between them and could be holding them apart. When you get ready to disassemble it put it in the press with the gear case facing down. Support it around the edge of the clutch case and stick a bar through the hole in the center through the axle gear and press against the cross shaft. That should seperate them.
Surprise! It all came apart just fine. There was a curl, but it seemed more like it was wedged in the side and not under. I took a tiny skim cut on the OD of the factory half. It's still a press fit but I can do it easily now.

Now the bad news... I gutted both halves and bolted them up empty, stuck it in the housing and put some preload on the bearings. This "new" billet half is 0.003" out of round and has 0.015" runout on the backside. The face where the gear mounts has 0.007" runout. The high spots seem to coincide, so it's prolly a poor machining job and didn't get caught in QC. Have e-mailed QP and am awaiting their response.

Russ
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 04-25-2013, 09:18 AM
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QP is sending me a complete empty trac-loc case in return for the bad billet hat. So, it's in a plastic tote box (on hold) for now while I tackle other things. Will post back when these parts arrive.

What a way for a first-timer to start out!

Russ
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Old 05-16-2013, 04:12 PM
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I'm baaaack!

The new case QP sent is spot-on with < 0.001" runout and everything went together perfectly. I needed a 0.029" shim in the clutches and ended up with 0.033". My original pinion shim was 0.020". To get the called for 1.028" pinion depth I would have needed for over 0.060", so I started with 0.033". Set at 0.008" backlash and this is what I ended up with on my 1st attempt. Pix in order are drive - spot #1, drive - spot #2, coast - spot #1, coast - spot #2. Pattern seems a bit ambiguous, maybe cause the gears are new. Am I OK?

Russ
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2013, 04:36 PM
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It doesn't look bad, but I don't wnat to say for sure because I can't read it very well. Use a few drops of oil on the teeth and run it through several more times so that it wipes off more of the compound and leaves a more clear pattern.
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Old 05-16-2013, 07:26 PM
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It doesn't look bad, but I don't wnat to say for sure because I can't read it very well. Use a few drops of oil on the teeth and run it through several more times so that it wipes off more of the compound and leaves a more clear pattern.
Haha, that was with oil! this time I used some WD-40 and smoothed out the compound, pix are: drive - spot #1, drive - spot #2, coast - spot #1, coast - spot #2.

Thanks!

Russ
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