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Old 08-18-2007, 11:31 AM
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Ford 9" Whine !!

Folks,
I am relatively new to Hot Rodding and dove into my 9" rebuild a few weeks ago. I reused my ring and pinion but put all new bearings and seals in the unit. (Carrier/pinion bearings, new crush sleeve, pinion nut etc). I put the pinion assembly back together and installed the pinion nut until there was 15 inch lbs of resistance. I installed a Detroit locker in to the unit and then tightened the side adjuster nuts and set the backlash to .008, on the money.

I took the ole' girl out for the test drive and around the neighborhood she sounded great. I took her out on the highway and the noise started at about 50mph. The noise is much worse on acceleration but it still can be heard faintly on deceleration.

I swear, but could be out of my gord, that the backlash is correct. Could I have tightened the side adjuster nuts too much?
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Old 08-18-2007, 12:28 PM
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Sounds like you have the backlash misadjusted. It should be .008 to .012., and/or your pinion teeth and ring gear teeth might not be coming together correctly.

The pinion should only have 15 to 18 inch pounds of rotational force to turn, nut tightened to 175 ft lbs with new bearings, or at least that is what I use with no problems.

Jason
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Old 08-25-2007, 08:03 AM
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Now the noise is on cruise

OK, so I went and redid the 3rd member. I replaced the crush sleeve with a solid spacer and got the pinion to rotate right at 20 inch lbs. I then reassembled the unit with a .010 backlash and torqued the side adjuster nuts down. I torqued them to where the overall rotational force on the pinion was at 35 inch lbs. I checked the gear pattern and it looked OK. I reassembled everything and took the ole' girl for a spin. The whine on the deceleration disappeared, the noise on acceleration decreased significantly but the noise when under very light throttle, such as cruise, is definitely noticeable.

Any suggestions, other than pulling the damn thing and taking it to the Lester's gear shop?
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Old 08-25-2007, 09:00 AM
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I always heard that if you don't get the original R&P back in the exact same position it was in before you took it apart, it will whine.

That means that you needed to run a pattern and do a pinion depth and backlash check before dissassembly of the original, and match those dimensions.

I also heard that once they start whining, it is very hard to get it to stop.

I always just got a louder stereo after a gear change....

That redline gear oil works wonders as well.

Later, mikey
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Old 08-25-2007, 09:03 AM
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did you check the gear mesh pattern with gear marking compound like outlined in this site?

http://www.ridgenet.net/~biesiade/gearinstal.html


Edit: i just looked back and saw you said you checked the pattern...but i'll leave the link, its a pretty good walk through with some decent illustrations.
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Old 08-25-2007, 09:04 AM
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If you reused the ring and pinion you probably dont have the gears setup exactly the way they were, and therefore, they are not running on the old wear pattern. If the gears had been used for thousands of miles they were already worn into a certain pattern. Readjusting the backlash, and maybe even the pinion depth, has changed the association between the ring and pinion gears so that they are not wearing in the old "groove". They may eventually wear in and quiet down. But, they may wear unevenly and get worse.
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Old 08-26-2007, 12:37 AM
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I've got some whine in mine as well. Used the old gears in a new Currie 9+ carrier and judiciously set it up in a FAB 9 housing. One issue I had was pinion/driveshaft angle after the alignment shop repositioned my differential. I corrected that and the whine got much better, but still there.

Must be something to what the guys above say about the old wear areas.
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Old 08-26-2007, 01:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leldai73
did you check the gear mesh pattern with gear marking compound like outlined in this site?

http://www.ridgenet.net/~biesiade/gearinstal.html


Edit: i just looked back and saw you said you checked the pattern...but i'll leave the link, its a pretty good walk through with some decent illustrations.
Thanks for posting that. I am supposed to go pick up a 9" for my truck. I traded some junk chevy parts for it. I just might need that link at some point. It is bookmarked now.
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Old 08-26-2007, 04:32 AM
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Quote:"I replaced the crush sleeve with a solid spacer and got the pinion to rotate right at 20 inch lbs."
.
I know this is trivial, and maybe too late, but all the talk about pinion bearing preload is wrong.
The rotational force to turn the pinion is measured in "inch ounces", not inch pounds.
I personally have never known anyone who owned an inch ounce torque wrench.
If the pinion bearings were adjusted to 20 inch pounds of rotational force as stated, the bearings are 16 times too tight.
JA
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Old 08-26-2007, 05:49 AM
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if the only annoying whine left is at light cruise....it's likely that 85W/140 will stop it...class 8 truck lube with moly or similar
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Old 08-26-2007, 06:38 AM
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Ford 9inch

Red65 beat me too it, but I had the same idea. My 12 bolt makes a little noise with synthetic fluid in it, but is quiet as can be with regular 80/90 gear lube. If you're running 80/90 already try the 85/140 as he recommended.
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Old 08-26-2007, 07:16 AM
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85W/140 or buy new gears....cause (as posted above)

slim chance to none you can get the worn gears back to exactly where they were happy before dis-assembly with no original wear pattern reference
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Old 08-26-2007, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnya
Quote:"I replaced the crush sleeve with a solid spacer and got the pinion to rotate right at 20 inch lbs."
.
I know this is trivial, and maybe too late, but all the talk about pinion bearing preload is wrong.
The rotational force to turn the pinion is measured in "inch ounces", not inch pounds.
I personally have never known anyone who owned an inch ounce torque wrench.
If the pinion bearings were adjusted to 20 inch pounds of rotational force as stated, the bearings are 16 times too tight.
JA
Inch pounds is the correct unit of measurement.

Please note step 3 in the picture below






Proper In-Lbs torque wrench



Source: 1970 ford factory manual.(original ford publication, not a reprint)

I have 3 or 4 more similar manuals from other years that say the same thing, so I doubt it is a typo.

Mikey.
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Last edited by powerrodsmike; 08-26-2007 at 08:40 AM.
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Old 08-26-2007, 09:26 AM
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Inch pounds is correct for rotational check of the pinion....


thanks for the great info & visual reference material Mike..


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Old 08-26-2007, 09:39 AM
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well...this is pretty ironic. my newly completed nine inch has now developed a whine. i had been driving the car for about a week on and off before it started. at first it was slight, but now it has become very noticeable. when under hard accelaration i cant hear it, its at its worst during light throttle, like trying to maintan speed on the highway. if i increase throttle the noise nearly goes away, also between hard shifts i notice a little whine. dosent seem to do it on decelaration though.

i did use old gears, but i didnt move any shims or replace any bearings. had the diff out and swapped around side gears, converted to 31 spline. i reset the backlash to around .008 (didnt think to check waht it was before i pulled it apart). The pattern looked good, to my novice eye, i checked anyway despite not moving shims. i would just chalk it up to the used gears, but the noise has developed after maybe 50-75 miles.

i had to replace the yolk, and when i did that i over tightened the pinion nut and the bearings locked up...i just replaced the crush sleeve and tourqued it down to spec, could this have damaged a bearing enough to cause it to loosen up over time?

i just took the drive shaft down, and it seems like there may be a little more back lash now than when i set it, but i cant realy tell without muscling the third member back out, so im trying to avoid that. the pinion rotation feels about the same, not realy smooth though. but i have tires and axles in it now, so perhaps that is throwing off my calibrated hand measurement.

any experts have any idea as to what i should do, im afraid im probably going to have to pull that third member out and go over every thing again just to be sure...but i thought id ask for some input before i got that far
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