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Old 07-06-2007, 05:39 PM
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ford alternator wiring

Good evening! This is my first post and, since this is the electrical section, I thought I'd start by giving my tire size....

I have a 66 F100 that appears to have a 351M and FMX transmission We bought it for a cruiser and when the alternator stopped working, I met a kid at the parts store that had a similar set up and bought the alternator he recommended. I couldn't get it wired before I forgot his instructions and, when I returned, he didn't work there anymore. I took it to a mechanic to install and I don't think he knew what he was doing either.

alternator- stamped on top x74a e93rba 3 4 9 b (I think) without removing it, I see two large black wires with orange stripes and a white wire with a black stripe coming out of the bottom and a plug at the top with the following wires a green with red stripe, white with black stripe and yellow with white stripe

current set up-
both white with black stripes are not connected to anything
green with red stripe goes directly to the ignition switch
yellow with black stripe goes through a 30amp in-line fuse to the positive
both orange and black wires connected directly to the positive terminal and fused with 20 amp push in fuses (wired in-line)
there is a voltage regulator mounted to the fender wall with nothing attached

problem-
fuses on the black wires with orange stripes keep blowing and thus not charging the battery

so far-
the black wires with orange stripes are producing over 60 volts

how do I correctly wire this and, if i need another voltage regulator, which one do I get?

Thanks!
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Old 07-06-2007, 08:48 PM
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Ive searched the forum and found a couple of diagrams but they are for different alternators. It seems obvious to me that the large black wires with orange stripes are the charging wires and not the ground as shown. With the voltage they are putting out, it seems that they would have to go through the regulator first. The one on the fender wall has four (i think) male spade connections.
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Old 07-06-2007, 10:59 PM
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Doc here,

This is for a 65 + Ford Charging system:



FIRST: If you are CORRECTLY Configured and measuring 60 Volts at the output..Pull the alternator, and buy a new one..you have NO rectifier Diodes left..and probably a shorted winding.

NEXT, why did you NOT wire the regulator? Did you upgrade to an internal regulated Alternator? otherwise, It isn't going to work..

At this point you will also need to inspect all the charge wires looking for melt downs and any fuse links asscioated with the system, before testing again..

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Old 07-07-2007, 02:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by One Named Fishin'

We bought it for a cruiser and when the alternator stopped working, I met a kid at the parts store that had a similar set up and bought the alternator he recommended. I couldn't get it wired before I forgot his instructions and, when I returned, he didn't work there anymore. I took it to a mechanic to install and I don't think he knew what he was doing either.

alternator- stamped on top x74a e93rba 3 4 9 b (I think) without removing it, I see two large black wires with orange stripes and a white wire with a black stripe coming out of the bottom and a plug at the top with the following wires a green with red stripe, white with black stripe and yellow with white stripe
Does the ALT appear as this one;



This is the only model I know of that has dual charging wires. It has an internal voltage regulator.

If so, this is the wiring diagram specifically for it in a stock application. If in an early vehicle you wire it and have no charging lamp/meter, there is a conversion kit to wire it to make it operable. Save the external regulator.



Now listen. If this is the style you have, it is subject to fire and the problem is in the dual charging wire circuit. You can buy a new plug and leads to wire it in. I don't know why he didn't give you a 1G to just bolt straight in.
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Old 07-07-2007, 06:19 AM
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Doc- Thanks for the reply. I found your diagrams in other posts and noticed they didnt match. My mechanic wired it and apparently it was supposed to have an internal regulator. It looks like your 30% bad out of the box (what was that acronym again???) theory may be the answer.

Kult- Thanks for the reply. I think we are talking about the same alternator and my mechanic wired it almost correctly. I am going to fuse the green wire and connect the black and white wires to each other and check the output. If I still get 60 volts then I am taking it back (if I can find the reciept to Advance).

You guys are great
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Old 07-07-2007, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by One Named Fishin'

Kult- Thanks for the reply. I think we are talking about the same alternator and my mechanic wired it almost correctly. I am going to fuse the green wire and connect the black and white wires to each other and check the output. If I still get 60 volts then I am taking it back.
If the engine came with a 1G with external regulator,



...that is what you need to replace it with unless you are completely comfortable rewiring the charging harness. Also, the 2G with external regulator may not operate the indicator lamp, another PIA.
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Old 07-07-2007, 12:57 PM
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Ok, I took it to Advance Auto Parts (where I bought it) and they tested it. It shows 15-16 volts on thier machine. I took it back to the house thinking that I might have a bad wire and bolted it back up.

With only the yellow wire hooked up to positive, I get 15-16 volts but as soon as I connect the battery to the charging leads, it drops to 12 volts.

If I connect the green lead to positive, I get high voltage again (33 now ).

Ive tried every combination of wires.

I am going to take it back and see if they can test it attached to a battery.
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Old 07-07-2007, 03:23 PM
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Doc here,


Which alternator IS it? the one shown in the picture?

Is it internally regulated or Externally regulated?

Why were you bypassing the regulator?

By blindly CONNECTING wires, your headed for a MAJOR fire that can not be put out until the battery explodes or the 4 gauge cables melt through.

If you tried running the power that you thought was ground to ground the fuse link is open for sure and that would give TONS of false output readings.

Did you set your browser settings and get the schematic to show up? Are you following that diagram?




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Last edited by docvette; 07-07-2007 at 03:29 PM.
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Old 07-07-2007, 04:43 PM
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If you have a 2G and it replaced an origional 1G (external regulator), did the salesman give you the neccessary plugs and leads to wire it into the harness properly? There is only one way to wire it and that is the correct way.
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Old 07-07-2007, 07:29 PM
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The reason for buying it was to eliminate the voltage regulator. The whole truck is a mismatched bunch of stuff. There is very little original left. There is no wiring harness.

I have the correct plugs for the alternator. It is the 2G with internal regulator and I was able to see and print the diagram. And wired it exactly like the diagram with the exception of the fuseable link. I had fuses instead which kept blowing (30 amp in each charging wire). I will try to find a 12 gage Monday but Napa, Advance and Auto Zone do not have them. I found a fuseable link in 14 gage and temporarily installed it to see what happened.

When tested at the battery I am getting 13.7 when running and 12.2 when shut off. The thing that was throwing me was that disconnecting the charging leads from the battery and checking the output shows 33 volts. So, what I don't know is if the alternator puts out less voltage when the charging leads are attached to a battery or, if it is still putting out 33 volts and attaching the battery disguises the problem.

Anyway, every line is fused now and, if I can find a 12 gauge fuseable link (any suggestions?), will be wired exactly like the diagram. Tying the three wires into the fuseable link I found was done with a very large wire nut. I need a better way to do it. The link is a wire with the fuse built into the eyelet and a butt connector on the other end. The other types of fuseable links are rated in amps. If I knew the correct amperage, I could substitute.

You guys are awesome by the way! Thanks for the help and quick responses. I have been out of this hobby for 20 years and really need it.
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Old 07-07-2007, 07:58 PM
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Doc here,

FIRST: NEVER! NEVER! Disconnect an alternator from a running vehicle..

YOU will destroy the alternator..and if the battery is under distress (loaded discharge) It is gassing H2SO4...the resulting SPARK will ignite the gas and blow the front end of the Vehicle right off the car..

IF you have defective diodes (which in your case may be a very real problem with a 33 volt output..) Much of that will be RAW AC..IT will destroy any Electronics on the line, which will NOT tolerate any AC on a source line..(Computers, Digital Gauges, Tach's , Modules, Alarm Systems, CD / Players) Because the battery no longer is a DC Buffer..(like a surge cap).

STANDARD Fuses won't stand up to the spikes of a Charging system..Dump them.

IF you can not get a Fuse link (s) GET MAXI fuses and an inline holder for each, start at 75 amps to see if it holds..You can make your own fuse link by using a 10 gauge wire, then soldering a 14 gauge wire to it and insulate with 2 or 3 pieces of heat shrink tubing..Either way..don't run without them or chances are you may be sorry you did.

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Old 07-07-2007, 09:06 PM
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The diagram from Kult shows the two orange and black and the yellow wires connected together before going into the fuseble link. With both together on a 14, the link gets quite hot. Since I cant find a 12 ga link, could I separate them and put them each on a 14 ga link?

Last edited by One Named Fishin'; 07-07-2007 at 09:08 PM. Reason: fixed spelling
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Old 07-07-2007, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by One Named Fishin'

The diagram from Kult shows the two orange and black and the yellow wires connected together before going into the fuseble link. With both together on a 14, the link gets quite hot. Since I cant find a 12 ga link, could I separate them and put them each on a 14 ga link?
This was the problem with the 2G, the charging wires overheating and setting ablaze. The 3G fixed that problem.

Let me see what I can find on this...will get back.
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Old 07-07-2007, 11:43 PM
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The problem with the 2G is the connection(s) carrying amperage to the BAT. They are subject to overheat. The 3G eliminated this problem (and is the most desirable upgrade).

Below is a Tech Article excerpted from-

http://www.geocities.com/smithmonte/...or_Upgrade.htm


Quote:
ELIMINATE FORD IAR B-B-S PLUG MELTDOWN


Catastrophic failure and meltdown of the Ford IAR rectifier BBS (Battery, Battery, Sense) plug has been a topic of much discussion in the rebuilding industry. Different from most alternator designs which utilize a threaded post connection for battery output, the IAR uses a three spade plug. This design is prone to developing excess heat caused by increased electrical resistance from a weak pressure plug contact.

The best concept for improving Ford IAR alternator reliability available today The FR191 "Kit" is easy to install by simply enlarging the wire loom hole located on the Ford IAR end frame to accommodate the insulated M6 output stud (See Figure 2). Everything you need for this simple conversion is provided including the heavy duty FR191 rectifier with M6 bolted output post, insulators, fast-on and ring connectors, nuts and locking washers and easy to follow installation instructions. Custom rebuilders who install their own units will appreciate this concept. Call your Transpo Representative today for your introductory special.

Ford Advisory Article # 95-25-4, recommends resistance testing of this connection and replacement of the connector plug when needed.

At the request of numerous customers, Transpo has developed a replacement Ford IAR unit that completely eliminates the BBS plug and converts the alternator to an output stud design using an M6 bolted connection.

Transpo's new Patent Pending design part number FR191 (See Figure 1) uses a modified premium line FR192XHD rectifier. This rectifier which has passed over 5,000 cycles on OEM type power thermal cycle test equipment, more than any other aftermarket rectifier on the market today. This, coupled with the elimination of the heat generating BBS plug, makes the FR191 conversion "kit".
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Old 07-09-2007, 07:29 PM
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Thank y'all so much for your help. You gave me enough info to find the answer (I think) and fix the problem (there I go thinking again).

In case you want to know, here's what I think was happening.....

The fuses that were installed by the mechanic could not handle the alternator output. Neither could a 14 ga fuseable link (at least not for long as it was getting pretty hot). I went to NAPA and the kid at the counter immediately recognized the alternator as one that had meltdown problems and claimed that replacing the plug with an aftermarket plug eliminated the problem. Though I find that a little hard to believe, the fact that they still sell the alternator and that the kid knew without my promting, gives me a little assurance. I replaced the plug and he pulled out a catalog with the fuseable links. It had lots of good info.

For those who want to learn- I found out that the plastic tags or blocks on the premade links are just for identification. The wire is normal copper wire in a special insulated jacket to keep it from burning through. It needs to be four sizes smaller than the wire it is protecting. The manufacturer's recommended length should be used, though 9" is considered max. Also the connectors must be heat shrink insulated to keep the wire from cooling off before it burns through. It burns up at 1000 degrees.

I used a triple wire connector to attach the orange/black and yellow wires together with the link on the third end. I couldnt find one in heat shrink so I used two layers of heat shrink tubing. Now I get 13 volts on the battery only and 14.5 at idle. The 12 ga link doesnt get real hot. I am leaving it as is and checking it for overheating every once in a while. I still dont understand why the alternator puts out high voltage when not attached to the batt. My engineer friend says it might be that it needs the resistance. Who knows. Thanks again! Here is a pic of my ride

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