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Ford dealer tells it like it is.

7K views 56 replies 24 participants last post by  doctorjohnny 
#1 ·
#3 ·
Well, I'll give you real incentive to go Ford. I own a car dealership. We're real careful about what we carry and put into customers' driveways. For example, we don't carry intrepids with 2.7L, Quad 4 vehicles with high mileage, we change intake gaskets on high mileage 3.1L and 3.4L GM's, nor do we carry a mazda 626 transmission, nor a Honda V6 transmission. Well, after this past year we don't carry Toyota or Honda anymore. Not because of the market, oh no, because of the money with throw into almost every one doing repairs. And guess what else, the infamous Ford Taurus headache has turned into one of our crown jewels. We rarely have major problems with 2001 and newer Taurus's.

Forgive me, oh foreign car fans, but you can't buy a brand new 1993 Camry, Corolla, or Civic that will go until you simply turn off the key. Oh, no, save money for a motor.
 
#4 ·
doctorjohnny said:
Well, I'll give you real incentive to go Ford. I own a car dealership. We're real careful about what we carry and put into customers' driveways. For example, we don't carry intrepids with 2.7L, Quad 4 vehicles with high mileage, we change intake gaskets on high mileage 3.1L and 3.4L GM's, nor do we carry a mazda 626 transmission, nor a Honda V6 transmission. Well, after this past year we don't carry Toyota or Honda anymore. Not because of the market, oh no, because of the money with throw into almost every one doing repairs. And guess what else, the infamous Ford Taurus headache has turned into one of our crown jewels. We rarely have major problems with 2001 and newer Taurus's.

Forgive me, oh foreign car fans, but you can't buy a brand new 1993 Camry, Corolla, or Civic that will go until you simply turn off the key. Oh, no, save money for a motor.







Good for you.It does sound like you know what to avoid.I,m a Honda mechanic.I would avoid any automatic accord or Odyssey from 1998-2002.Also the civics with the cvt.The rest,I really can,t think of any major problems.Good luck with your business. :thumbup:
 
#5 ·
doctorjohnny said:
Well, I'll give you real incentive to go Ford. I own a car dealership. We're real careful about what we carry and put into customers' driveways. For example, we don't carry intrepids with 2.7L, Quad 4 vehicles with high mileage, we change intake gaskets on high mileage 3.1L and 3.4L GM's, nor do we carry a mazda 626 transmission, nor a Honda V6 transmission. Well, after this past year we don't carry Toyota or Honda anymore. Not because of the market, oh no, because of the money with throw into almost every one doing repairs. And guess what else, the infamous Ford Taurus headache has turned into one of our crown jewels. We rarely have major problems with 2001 and newer Taurus's.

Forgive me, oh foreign car fans, but you can't buy a brand new 1993 Camry, Corolla, or Civic that will go until you simply turn off the key. Oh, no, save money for a motor.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Now I'm a Ford fan but don't you think you are twisting this a little?
My one son has owned a number of F250 and dragged then and is a murderator on a diesel forum so I know all the problems they have had with the fuel system you did not report.

I purchased a new 2003 T-bird in 2004 for my wife because that was the only year they offered a baby blue to match her 57, what about that transmission I replaced at 36,300 miles? Yea its the same one used in the mountaineer V8 and a couple of other Fords that has an average life span of 65,000, I later found out. Yea they did replace the rear end at 6,000 miles also, the 97 Lexis my wife had never was to the dealership and I knew I would have never pried that car from her, so gave her the T-Bird for her birthday and figured she would keep both. Lexis 400 sold 1st day in paper and ended up costing $1800 +/- a year to drive.

So, my Sequoia just turned 120,000 miles Friday (2005), has been to dealer once to replace belts at 100,000 miles only because the vette was on lift in garage so I could not do it.

Oil is changed every 10,000 miles and just checked it yesterday as will not be able to change till next week, oh not lost a drop in a hair over 10,000 miles.
When should I plan on buying engine, like you say?
 
#6 ·
This kinda interesting as I have a 96 Ford pickup with 160,000 on the clock and all it has ever cost me is LOF and fluid changes..some brake pads and spark plugs..I did have to replace a O2 sensor and that is it in 12 years..Still starts even if it sets fo 2-3 weeks with out being used..i also have a Ford Focus which now has 35,000 on it and it has given me no grief at all..that car did get the SVO springs and Eibach sway bars which I like for the handling and ride..One thing I have seen over the years is that if a car is maintained and not abused it will give a good service..Now cars that are raced or mistreated in some way are great for the repair business..

Sam
 
#8 · (Edited)
Well, first of all, Barry, your t-bird is a jaguar. I'm sure you know that it has a 4.0L Jaguar V-8 that runs really good when it does. I'm also pretty sure that at least one of your coil packs have been changed along with valve cover gaskets and the like. And, if I'm not mistaken, that particular transmission is actually built in France. So much for it really being a Ford.

Now, I'm knocking, more specifically (as far as Toyota) their cars. You probably have an iron block in your Sequoia. That's great. I'm talking mainly about the aluminum blocks in the late model Toyota's (including the new Tundra) that don't seem to hold up nearly as well as the older generation Toyota's. I'm also talking about the the Rav4 Transmissions (definitely the 2002 L models) that had a recall on the transmission computers. These computers would, at some point, chew the transmission. Then, if you are over 75,000 miles, you have to pay for it, around $1000.00 plus the transmission. I'm also talking about the valve stem seals (that are probably in your Lexus) that like act as if they were meant to go in a Mitsubishi Montero Sport. Now it sounds like you run full synthetic, so you probably won't see the problem, but if you are a little lax with maintenance, maybe you will.

I'm also willing to bet that you can pick almost any Tahoe or Suburban driving by and put it agaiinst your Sequoia and it will win in just about all categories, including fuel efficiency, especially in cost of ownership.

Bottom line, you're right, I don't carry Lincoln LS's, New model T-Bird's, or any Jaguar on our lot.
 
#9 ·
I understand that a lot of people are upset about the Auto Bailout situation. As an American I would be very upset to see all those jobs disappear and see any of the Detroit 3 companies go under.

Practically though you have to look at the situation. Cars are large purchases. People have gotten used to the better quality, reliability, fit and finish, and service of foreign makes. The Detroit 3 have lagged behind in almost all of those areas and their business models have been a complete disaster.

I'm not saying that a Toyota or Honda won't have problems at all! Cars are cars and some certainly will have problems no matter the make. Foreign makes quality control though is so much better and the chances of you getting a trouble free car are much lower. I speak from personal experience and of what my mechanic has told me. (He has 2 Chevy Trucks!)

People aren't willing to take chances on such larges purchases! That's just how it is. In today's climate the term "American Car" is much different that what it meant years ago.

Chinese GM Engine!
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/chinese-gm-engine-136051.html
 
#10 ·
Doctor, No I have not had any problems other then trans and rear end but thanks for the warning so I can watch for them.

Really its a pretty well built car and I think all the big three have come a long way over last eight or so years and have caught up with the rice burners.
Also the engine in mine is the higher HP, aluminum block. (Toyota)

Thanks for the reply.
Barry
 
#11 ·
I just want to dive a little deeper. Mgold has a good point. During the 90's American cars were almost all disasters on wheels. The Contour, Mystique, Grand Am's, Stratus's, Sebring's, Corsica's, Taurus's, Sable's, the you name front wheel drive american product and you'll see a disaster. I can't think of one at this moment that I could appreciate. That's also the time for the great foreign trend beginning. I'm pretty sure that for most of the 90's these Japanese cars were manufactured in Japan. Another factor that didn't help was the lack of Japanese cars in the rental car fleets. Those cars get dogged out for about a year (in most cases) and are put in consumers' hands. The first 20-30,000 miles were hell with a strong lack in maintenance.

With all this in mind, move forward. Ford and GM got the idea around the years 1998-2002 with new line-ups. These line-ups have been pretty good for the most part. The problems that these cars did have were ones that they all had. It could be expected and repaired. Rarely burning up engines and transmission. (Notice that I'm not speaking about Chrysler Corp.) Examples: Chevy full size trucks and SUV's, don't change your fuel filter and you'll buy a fuel pump (hell, you might buy one anyway); Have an Impala, Grand Am, Malibu, or any other dashboard key ignition, plan to buy a lock cylinder and have it programmed. If you have GM 3.1L or 3.4L plan to buy intake gaskets. Right now Ford has been on top over and over in vehicles with initial quality.
Now go to Toyota and Honda (not Nissan; I consider them to be like current American cars, not bad, never been awesome). Toyota ads say to look at their legendary reliablity. That legend was over about 1997-1999. I've see and have replaced several Toyota 4 cylinder engines 1999 and up. These engines can be found in Corolla's, Matrix's, and yes, Pontiac Vibe's, Chevy Prizm's, Chevy HHR (I think), and others. I've seen Camry's (and Maxima's) making engine noises that I didn't even want to entertain long enough to find out (sounded like oil pumps, even the older ones had that problem), and other really unexpected (not Toyota-like) problems. What did Honda in with me besides the tranny and ignition switch and wheel bearing and A/C compressor and other problems was a motor burning up on me recently. It was in a 1998 Honda Civic. It had all maintenance records including new timing belt, A/C compressor, water pump, radiator, oil changes, and so forth and had 120k miles at the time. With no signs of over-heating or lack of lube or abuse of any kind, the motor lost compression on 3 cylinders out of nowhere. Just like that, motor bad. I and 2 other mechanic crews threw all my books on the floor and flipped the car upside-down trying to figure it out.

Back to the point, just like you can't get a good old M.B. 240D or 300D, you can't get an old-school Camry or Corolla. You can only buy those used.

Do everybody a favor if buying new, buy American.
 
#12 ·
My buddy has a very busy local shop there is constantly Honda Accords and
a lot of Subaru's there and he writes them big bills. I saw one for a Civic that needed a Catalytic converter and all the exhaust it was around 2200 bucks,he told me the cat was only available from the dealer,thats nuts and thats what I feel you get from a lot of these foriegn cars. Accords are starters, head gaskets, broken power windows. It does you good for a while but when it starts to get old and usually has poor maintanace it turns to a nightmare.The Subarus always seem to need a motor hes sent many to the junkyard,Mitsubishi's are really bad too, expensive to fix.
 
#13 ·
doctorjohnny Do everybody a favor if buying new said:
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Here is the problem I have with this statement.
I don't know and am only guessing, maybe some smarter people on here know the facts.

I would bet the foreign manufacturers have invested more in plants and created more jobs in the USA then the big three have in last ten years and if that is true who are we doing a favor for? A-hole Wagoner? Nandeillie?

Have you driven by the Toyota plant in IND, the Mercedes plant, the new KIA plaint in GA and a bunch of others in the SE.
Only thing the big three have done is close plants and F--ked the workers.

My ex neighbor king crap at the Atlanta Taurus plant (you would know him) and last few to 12 years was rated one of the best Ford had, so good they had planned on bringing the Lincolns in, so they closed it. DUH!
 
#14 ·
anthonyc1 said:
I saw one for a Civic that needed a Catalytic converter and all the exhaust it was around 2200 bucks,he told me the cat was only available from the dealer,thats nuts and thats what I feel you get from a lot of these foriegn cars.
We had the damnest thing happen the other day concerning catalytic converters. It was on a Toyota Sequoia that had the cats stolen. Yes, it is getting more and more common around here, they are VERY valuable for recycle so they are easy to sell. Anyway, someone got under the car with a sawsall and cut them out.

OEM Toyota ones were about a grand each (I forget the exact number but I think they were close to a grand) so we went with aftermarket. The O2 sensors were swiped as well, so we had those done. The friggin check engine light would come on after about thirty miles. So, we took a good look at it and found that the muffler shop mounted the O2 sensors in front of the converter where on the Toy cats they were in the middle, or something like that. So we had them move them, check engine light still lights after 30 miles. We put OEM Toyota sensors, still lights after 30 miles.

These cats were brand new replacements that he installs all the time!

End of story? We bought the new OEM Toyota Cats, end of problem.

Brian
 
#15 ·
Barry,

I do see your point about the local plants. I've got grief about where some American manufacturers do the manufacturing also.

From what I understand, most of the hard parts are made in Japan for those cars, and they are assembled here. For American cars, I believe that most hard parts are made and assembled here. I'm not going to say all of them because I know that's not true. The point is that these are the plants that employ people. The Mercedes plant is great, but I think that we're talking about cars under $50k or $60k.

And, as far as replacement parts, no one is more expensive among these than Honda and Nissan in my view. Toyota isn't cheap either. Not only that, you can buy an American made aftermarket part for an American car and it will probably work fine.
 
#16 ·
Oh, they are all crap! It doesn't matter what badge they have, they are all sh1t. If you own a 2003-2007 ford superduty diesel, be prepared to look at: turbo, egr cooler, oil cooler, cylinder heads and gaskets, egr valve, FICM's, injectors, high pressure oil pumps, and various HP oil leaks internally. That is just the common issues on the 6.0L diesel. The 6.4 has a whole new set of f/ups. You have a taurus or taurus X? Look for ptu seals, PITA tune ups. AWD edge or fusions? Driveline vibrations right off the lot, driveshaft issues. GM is no better, and Chrysler has their own issues. Toyota has the aforementioned problems, and so do all the other manufacturers. You pick the manufacturer that has the colours you like the best. After that, they all have problems.
 
#17 ·
Let's just say that they are all "sh1t". What would be better, buying American of foreign?

AND, my wife owns an Edge with about 18k on it now bought new. Never seen the dealership since. AND believe it or not, I'm a GM kinda guy. I've got a 2002 Sierra with 110k miles and I've never even had to change the brakes. Just a battery and Maintenance. AND we (at least myself) are mainly speaking of cars. We all know the jam-up's with the Ford Diesel's. They are trying to fit the federal regulations on fuel economy. They're trying really hard to cram 10 lbs. of stuff in a 5 lb. bag. We all know that the Duramax isn't awesome either. The Cummins seems to be the great one, in my opinion, in the worst of the 3 truck lines.

With all in mind, American or foreign?
 
#18 ·
Overall the Japanees cars are the highest quality, longest lasting cars made. You point out a hand full of specific examples of issues with Toyota's. The American have the same type issues but many more. The diference is the Japanese car companies in a lot of cases wlll extend the warrantee on a troublesome issue, the big three just pray you make it past the original warrantee period and then you are on your own. The garage I work at part time sees mostly 3 to 15 year old cars. You can not compare the issues between American and Japanese cars.
Until the Big 3 get their act together and actuall produce something the public wants to buy, they will continue to suffer.
Dont feel bad for the auto workers, they have been taking advantage of the system for way to long.
If their is a bail out one of the conditions should be to get rid of the UAW. 40 to 50 bucks an hour for unskilled labor, give me a break.
 
#20 ·
The title should read... Ford dealer tries to save business by guilting the american people into buying GARBAGE.

Did they ever think to actually sell cars that people wanted? :rolleyes: If my business fails in the end I have no one else to blame but myself. When the big 3 go out of business its everyone elses fault!

Jordon
 
#21 · (Edited)
TBUCKET, XXLLMM, WHERE ARE YOUR DETAILS? How do you expect me or anyone else to just believe this stuff without something to stand on? Sounds like passionate fans instead of objective judges of reason.

In that I case, I love all nfc teams and hate all afc teams no matter who they trade and how they play.

All I'm saying is that you should un-anchor your foreign beliefs and check out the latest facts a little.

As far as the UAW, I hear ya'! Wow, some of those guys are some of the most overpaid, undeserving scoundrels that the U.S. has ever seen. They aren't helping at all. They are really the guys sending the jobs overseas. Can you blame the automakers? The American worker should be as passionate as these forums no matter where he/she works.
 
#22 ·
I want a new Challenger I wouldn't mind a new Mustang or Camaro either.
As far as a family type car I could be happy eith a Buick Lucerne or Caddy DTS or CTS hell any of the above mentioned (maybe not the Buick but its a nice car) would get me to buy before any thing the Japanese or Koreans produced ever as far as styling goes.
 
#23 ·
This was either 2001 or 2002.I worked for a brief time at a ford dealership.It was small dealership,so they only got the one Harley Davidson edition truck.
A lady drove down from Nashville to pick it up(about 60-70 miles).She wanted her old trailer hitch and a few other accessories put on her new truck from her old one(another Harley truck,one year older).
When I got under her new Harley Davidson edition,the guys in shop ask me what I was laughing at............


What better represents the good ole USA than Ford and Harley Davidson..........well under the spring in yellow stencil is painted "MADE IN MEXICO". :rolleyes:
 
#24 · (Edited)
doctorjohnny If you want details just look at consumer reports for the last 10 Years. Look at American car resale values. Common scene says people don't want what their selling or they wouldn't be in this mess.

redlightning also hit the nail on the head, can you even call these companies American anymore?

I would love to buy an American car but I don't want to buy anything they sell. The last new car I bought was a 03 Subaru WRX, AWD 230HP wagon for 23,500 They didnt have anything to compete with it!

So I am supposed to buy a car that is 51% American from a giant corporation that extorts money out of hundreds of websites, businesses and fan clubs out of a scene of loyalty. All i'm saying is don't blame me. They did it to themselves.

Jordon
 
#25 ·
Did they ever think to actually sell cars that people wanted? If my business fails in the end I have no one else to blame but myself. When the big 3 go out of business its everyone elses fault!
QUOTE]

One problem with this statement xxllmm! How many people does "your" business employ? The issue isn't whose fault this is, it's how many people are going to be unemployed because of this. You think the economy is bad now, just wait until who knows how many people have no job, can't pay bills, etc.

Its one thing if the mom and pop operations closes doors and 10 people are out of work, it's a whole new ball game when 1-2-3 million people have no income.

So is it not better, (if its possible) for your government to try and help? I am no expert and this whole bail out may just prolong there demise but I really don't know.


As far as the new car thing goes, every manufacturer has put out there lemon, but from what I see the north american builders are definately improving and catching up with the reliability of the imports.

I don't like many of the new cars out there, they're all pretty ugly really. Minus of course the Camaro, Challenger, Mustang, Vette, and a few other sports cars.


bonuts
 
#26 ·
bonuts, my comments are directed mostly to the original video posted.
"MY" business employs 2 people. But its the same principal, I believe in a Capitalist society in the truest seance.

I have very mixed feelings about the bail out plans. They give 700 billion with no strings attached for the housing market but cant fork over a lousy 15 billion for the auto makers? I really don't know if the government should loan them the money but at this point I don't think GM will be able to recoup any time soon. Not many people will be willing to buy a car from a manufacture they think is going out of business. If they do go out of business hopefully it will be an American buyer. I'm done posting on this :p


Jordon
 
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