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Old 12-13-2008, 09:08 AM
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Ford dealer tells it like it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGLsfJTWEKs

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Old 12-13-2008, 09:55 PM
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Finally...Someone with the balls to tell it like it is.
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Old 12-13-2008, 10:05 PM
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Well, I'll give you real incentive to go Ford. I own a car dealership. We're real careful about what we carry and put into customers' driveways. For example, we don't carry intrepids with 2.7L, Quad 4 vehicles with high mileage, we change intake gaskets on high mileage 3.1L and 3.4L GM's, nor do we carry a mazda 626 transmission, nor a Honda V6 transmission. Well, after this past year we don't carry Toyota or Honda anymore. Not because of the market, oh no, because of the money with throw into almost every one doing repairs. And guess what else, the infamous Ford Taurus headache has turned into one of our crown jewels. We rarely have major problems with 2001 and newer Taurus's.

Forgive me, oh foreign car fans, but you can't buy a brand new 1993 Camry, Corolla, or Civic that will go until you simply turn off the key. Oh, no, save money for a motor.
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Old 12-14-2008, 12:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doctorjohnny
Well, I'll give you real incentive to go Ford. I own a car dealership. We're real careful about what we carry and put into customers' driveways. For example, we don't carry intrepids with 2.7L, Quad 4 vehicles with high mileage, we change intake gaskets on high mileage 3.1L and 3.4L GM's, nor do we carry a mazda 626 transmission, nor a Honda V6 transmission. Well, after this past year we don't carry Toyota or Honda anymore. Not because of the market, oh no, because of the money with throw into almost every one doing repairs. And guess what else, the infamous Ford Taurus headache has turned into one of our crown jewels. We rarely have major problems with 2001 and newer Taurus's.

Forgive me, oh foreign car fans, but you can't buy a brand new 1993 Camry, Corolla, or Civic that will go until you simply turn off the key. Oh, no, save money for a motor.







Good for you.It does sound like you know what to avoid.I,m a Honda mechanic.I would avoid any automatic accord or Odyssey from 1998-2002.Also the civics with the cvt.The rest,I really can,t think of any major problems.Good luck with your business.
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Old 12-14-2008, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doctorjohnny
Well, I'll give you real incentive to go Ford. I own a car dealership. We're real careful about what we carry and put into customers' driveways. For example, we don't carry intrepids with 2.7L, Quad 4 vehicles with high mileage, we change intake gaskets on high mileage 3.1L and 3.4L GM's, nor do we carry a mazda 626 transmission, nor a Honda V6 transmission. Well, after this past year we don't carry Toyota or Honda anymore. Not because of the market, oh no, because of the money with throw into almost every one doing repairs. And guess what else, the infamous Ford Taurus headache has turned into one of our crown jewels. We rarely have major problems with 2001 and newer Taurus's.

Forgive me, oh foreign car fans, but you can't buy a brand new 1993 Camry, Corolla, or Civic that will go until you simply turn off the key. Oh, no, save money for a motor.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Now I'm a Ford fan but don't you think you are twisting this a little?
My one son has owned a number of F250 and dragged then and is a murderator on a diesel forum so I know all the problems they have had with the fuel system you did not report.

I purchased a new 2003 T-bird in 2004 for my wife because that was the only year they offered a baby blue to match her 57, what about that transmission I replaced at 36,300 miles? Yea its the same one used in the mountaineer V8 and a couple of other Fords that has an average life span of 65,000, I later found out. Yea they did replace the rear end at 6,000 miles also, the 97 Lexis my wife had never was to the dealership and I knew I would have never pried that car from her, so gave her the T-Bird for her birthday and figured she would keep both. Lexis 400 sold 1st day in paper and ended up costing $1800 +/- a year to drive.

So, my Sequoia just turned 120,000 miles Friday (2005), has been to dealer once to replace belts at 100,000 miles only because the vette was on lift in garage so I could not do it.

Oil is changed every 10,000 miles and just checked it yesterday as will not be able to change till next week, oh not lost a drop in a hair over 10,000 miles.
When should I plan on buying engine, like you say?
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Old 12-14-2008, 11:22 AM
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This kinda interesting as I have a 96 Ford pickup with 160,000 on the clock and all it has ever cost me is LOF and fluid changes..some brake pads and spark plugs..I did have to replace a O2 sensor and that is it in 12 years..Still starts even if it sets fo 2-3 weeks with out being used..i also have a Ford Focus which now has 35,000 on it and it has given me no grief at all..that car did get the SVO springs and Eibach sway bars which I like for the handling and ride..One thing I have seen over the years is that if a car is maintained and not abused it will give a good service..Now cars that are raced or mistreated in some way are great for the repair business..

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Old 12-14-2008, 11:46 AM
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For crying out loud ...

They're ALL junk when the don't run!

They ALL have a warranty dept, and a "customer satisfaction index" don't they?
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Old 12-14-2008, 05:07 PM
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Well, first of all, Barry, your t-bird is a jaguar. I'm sure you know that it has a 4.0L Jaguar V-8 that runs really good when it does. I'm also pretty sure that at least one of your coil packs have been changed along with valve cover gaskets and the like. And, if I'm not mistaken, that particular transmission is actually built in France. So much for it really being a Ford.

Now, I'm knocking, more specifically (as far as Toyota) their cars. You probably have an iron block in your Sequoia. That's great. I'm talking mainly about the aluminum blocks in the late model Toyota's (including the new Tundra) that don't seem to hold up nearly as well as the older generation Toyota's. I'm also talking about the the Rav4 Transmissions (definitely the 2002 L models) that had a recall on the transmission computers. These computers would, at some point, chew the transmission. Then, if you are over 75,000 miles, you have to pay for it, around $1000.00 plus the transmission. I'm also talking about the valve stem seals (that are probably in your Lexus) that like act as if they were meant to go in a Mitsubishi Montero Sport. Now it sounds like you run full synthetic, so you probably won't see the problem, but if you are a little lax with maintenance, maybe you will.

I'm also willing to bet that you can pick almost any Tahoe or Suburban driving by and put it agaiinst your Sequoia and it will win in just about all categories, including fuel efficiency, especially in cost of ownership.

Bottom line, you're right, I don't carry Lincoln LS's, New model T-Bird's, or any Jaguar on our lot.

Last edited by doctorjohnny; 12-14-2008 at 05:14 PM.
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Old 12-14-2008, 06:28 PM
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I understand that a lot of people are upset about the Auto Bailout situation. As an American I would be very upset to see all those jobs disappear and see any of the Detroit 3 companies go under.

Practically though you have to look at the situation. Cars are large purchases. People have gotten used to the better quality, reliability, fit and finish, and service of foreign makes. The Detroit 3 have lagged behind in almost all of those areas and their business models have been a complete disaster.

I'm not saying that a Toyota or Honda won't have problems at all! Cars are cars and some certainly will have problems no matter the make. Foreign makes quality control though is so much better and the chances of you getting a trouble free car are much lower. I speak from personal experience and of what my mechanic has told me. (He has 2 Chevy Trucks!)

People aren't willing to take chances on such larges purchases! That's just how it is. In today's climate the term "American Car" is much different that what it meant years ago.

Chinese GM Engine!
Chinese GM Engine!!!
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Old 12-14-2008, 07:06 PM
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Doctor, No I have not had any problems other then trans and rear end but thanks for the warning so I can watch for them.

Really its a pretty well built car and I think all the big three have come a long way over last eight or so years and have caught up with the rice burners.
Also the engine in mine is the higher HP, aluminum block. (Toyota)

Thanks for the reply.
Barry
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Old 12-14-2008, 08:38 PM
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I just want to dive a little deeper. Mgold has a good point. During the 90's American cars were almost all disasters on wheels. The Contour, Mystique, Grand Am's, Stratus's, Sebring's, Corsica's, Taurus's, Sable's, the you name front wheel drive american product and you'll see a disaster. I can't think of one at this moment that I could appreciate. That's also the time for the great foreign trend beginning. I'm pretty sure that for most of the 90's these Japanese cars were manufactured in Japan. Another factor that didn't help was the lack of Japanese cars in the rental car fleets. Those cars get dogged out for about a year (in most cases) and are put in consumers' hands. The first 20-30,000 miles were hell with a strong lack in maintenance.

With all this in mind, move forward. Ford and GM got the idea around the years 1998-2002 with new line-ups. These line-ups have been pretty good for the most part. The problems that these cars did have were ones that they all had. It could be expected and repaired. Rarely burning up engines and transmission. (Notice that I'm not speaking about Chrysler Corp.) Examples: Chevy full size trucks and SUV's, don't change your fuel filter and you'll buy a fuel pump (hell, you might buy one anyway); Have an Impala, Grand Am, Malibu, or any other dashboard key ignition, plan to buy a lock cylinder and have it programmed. If you have GM 3.1L or 3.4L plan to buy intake gaskets. Right now Ford has been on top over and over in vehicles with initial quality.
Now go to Toyota and Honda (not Nissan; I consider them to be like current American cars, not bad, never been awesome). Toyota ads say to look at their legendary reliablity. That legend was over about 1997-1999. I've see and have replaced several Toyota 4 cylinder engines 1999 and up. These engines can be found in Corolla's, Matrix's, and yes, Pontiac Vibe's, Chevy Prizm's, Chevy HHR (I think), and others. I've seen Camry's (and Maxima's) making engine noises that I didn't even want to entertain long enough to find out (sounded like oil pumps, even the older ones had that problem), and other really unexpected (not Toyota-like) problems. What did Honda in with me besides the tranny and ignition switch and wheel bearing and A/C compressor and other problems was a motor burning up on me recently. It was in a 1998 Honda Civic. It had all maintenance records including new timing belt, A/C compressor, water pump, radiator, oil changes, and so forth and had 120k miles at the time. With no signs of over-heating or lack of lube or abuse of any kind, the motor lost compression on 3 cylinders out of nowhere. Just like that, motor bad. I and 2 other mechanic crews threw all my books on the floor and flipped the car upside-down trying to figure it out.

Back to the point, just like you can't get a good old M.B. 240D or 300D, you can't get an old-school Camry or Corolla. You can only buy those used.

Do everybody a favor if buying new, buy American.
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Old 12-14-2008, 09:00 PM
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My buddy has a very busy local shop there is constantly Honda Accords and
a lot of Subaru's there and he writes them big bills. I saw one for a Civic that needed a Catalytic converter and all the exhaust it was around 2200 bucks,he told me the cat was only available from the dealer,thats nuts and thats what I feel you get from a lot of these foriegn cars. Accords are starters, head gaskets, broken power windows. It does you good for a while but when it starts to get old and usually has poor maintanace it turns to a nightmare.The Subarus always seem to need a motor hes sent many to the junkyard,Mitsubishi's are really bad too, expensive to fix.
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Old 12-15-2008, 06:24 AM
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[QUOTE=doctorjohnny

Do everybody a favor if buying new, buy American.[/QUOTE]
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Here is the problem I have with this statement.
I don't know and am only guessing, maybe some smarter people on here know the facts.

I would bet the foreign manufacturers have invested more in plants and created more jobs in the USA then the big three have in last ten years and if that is true who are we doing a favor for? A-hole Wagoner? Nandeillie?

Have you driven by the Toyota plant in IND, the Mercedes plant, the new KIA plaint in GA and a bunch of others in the SE.
Only thing the big three have done is close plants and F--ked the workers.

My ex neighbor king crap at the Atlanta Taurus plant (you would know him) and last few to 12 years was rated one of the best Ford had, so good they had planned on bringing the Lincolns in, so they closed it. DUH!
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Old 12-15-2008, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyc1
I saw one for a Civic that needed a Catalytic converter and all the exhaust it was around 2200 bucks,he told me the cat was only available from the dealer,thats nuts and thats what I feel you get from a lot of these foriegn cars.
We had the damnest thing happen the other day concerning catalytic converters. It was on a Toyota Sequoia that had the cats stolen. Yes, it is getting more and more common around here, they are VERY valuable for recycle so they are easy to sell. Anyway, someone got under the car with a sawsall and cut them out.

OEM Toyota ones were about a grand each (I forget the exact number but I think they were close to a grand) so we went with aftermarket. The O2 sensors were swiped as well, so we had those done. The friggin check engine light would come on after about thirty miles. So, we took a good look at it and found that the muffler shop mounted the O2 sensors in front of the converter where on the Toy cats they were in the middle, or something like that. So we had them move them, check engine light still lights after 30 miles. We put OEM Toyota sensors, still lights after 30 miles.

These cats were brand new replacements that he installs all the time!

End of story? We bought the new OEM Toyota Cats, end of problem.

Brian
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Old 12-15-2008, 08:48 AM
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Barry,

I do see your point about the local plants. I've got grief about where some American manufacturers do the manufacturing also.

From what I understand, most of the hard parts are made in Japan for those cars, and they are assembled here. For American cars, I believe that most hard parts are made and assembled here. I'm not going to say all of them because I know that's not true. The point is that these are the plants that employ people. The Mercedes plant is great, but I think that we're talking about cars under $50k or $60k.

And, as far as replacement parts, no one is more expensive among these than Honda and Nissan in my view. Toyota isn't cheap either. Not only that, you can buy an American made aftermarket part for an American car and it will probably work fine.
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