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Old 12-19-2004, 12:30 PM
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Ford FE gurus, need some help with motor

I have a FT 391 truck block and need some information on using it in a car. The block has a reverse cast 105 on the front instead of the 352. The main bearing webs have extra metal cast into them. The main bearing caps are thicker than a standard FE motor main caps. The block also has extra material cast at the bottom of it, looks like for adding cross bolted caps. I have read that these blocks have wider cam bearings, a larger distributor hole and a different motor mount configuration. I need to know if standard FE cam bearing will work on this block and does it take different main bearing than a standard FE since it has wider caps. What do I do about the larger distibutor hole and motor mounts. I would like to use this block in my Mustang and stroke it, bore it to a 428, plus put my pair of C1AE heads on it. Is this block going to be useable for building a stroker and stuffing it in my Mustang?

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Old 12-19-2004, 06:39 PM
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FE Sources

http://www.transmissionadapters.com/ford_fe.htm
http://www.fomoco.com/forumfe/
http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182
http://www.network54.com/Forum/21142
file:///D:/Cars/Ford/FE%20Tips/FE-Building%20Tips%20&%20Tricks.html
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Old 12-21-2004, 01:01 AM
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Re: Ford FE gurus, need some help with motor

Quote:
Originally posted by onebadmerc

I have a FT 391 truck block and need some information on using it in a car. The block has a reverse cast 105 on the front instead of the 352. The main bearing webs have extra metal cast into them. The main bearing caps are thicker than a standard FE motor main caps. The block also has extra material cast at the bottom of it, looks like for adding cross bolted caps. I have read that these blocks have wider cam bearings, a larger distributor hole and a different motor mount configuration. I need to know if standard FE cam bearing will work on this block and does it take different main bearing than a standard FE since it has wider caps. What do I do about the larger distibutor hole and motor mounts. I would like to use this block in my Mustang and stroke it, bore it to a 428, plus put my pair of C1AE heads on it. Is this block going to be useable for building a stroker and stuffing it in my Mustang?
This block was used for service replacement (360/390/428) during the last days of the FE. All bearing surfaces should be the same as the FE. You just have a heavier casting. Being the heavier casting, it should take the overbore to a 428 (4.13")(sonic check). The engine mounting pads will be the same as both the early and late FE. If you need an adaptor to fit an FE distributor, it should be still available from FORD (C4TZ 12367-A). You will also have to use the FE front cover.
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Old 12-21-2004, 09:02 AM
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FE gurus ?

To make a 428 out of your 390/391, you will need a 428 crank. The 428 has a 3.98" stroke vs the 3.75 of the 390/391.
The 428 is also an externally balanced engine, as was the 410, which used the same crank. The 410 and 428 used a different flywheel than the rest of the FE's due to the external balancing.
If possible, I would recommend finding a piston, rod, and crank assembly, rather than try to piece it together.
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Old 12-21-2004, 11:33 AM
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Typos

The stroke of the 390/391 would have read 3.78, not 3.75.
To build the 428 will require an .080", over bore.
The 410 can be made by using the stock bore dimensions.
A 60 overbore with the 3.98 crank will yield a 412 CID.

Goofing up all around here today. A 60 overbore with the 3.98 crank will yield 418 cubes, not 412.

Lets try this a third time. My calculater is having a bad day (gotta blame it on something).

With an overbore of .060", and the 3.98 crank you will have 422 cubes.

My apologies for having a bad day here.

Last edited by Max Keith; 12-21-2004 at 11:33 AM.
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Old 12-21-2004, 11:47 AM
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I have a set of C7AE rods out of a 428 I should be able to find a used 428 crank on Ebay or I could buy a new Scat Crankshaft. Scat also make stroker cranks for the FE engines, but I don't know if I want to go that far in stroking my engine. I will have to take my block to Denver to get it sonic checked before I do any machine work. There is no place closer than Denver that has anybody who sonic checks blocks, which is 100 miles away. If the block wont take .080 I guess I could live with 418 cubes, it would be alot better than the 2 barrel 302 engine the car has right now. Before I get this motor built I need to get my 66 T-bird390 fit into my car and then take it from there. Thanks for the information KULTULZ and Max.
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Old 12-21-2004, 12:08 PM
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FE guru?

I would opt for the new SCAT crank if they make one. I fear that most any crank you are going to find now, thats OEM, could well be just about wore out. Even if you elect to stay with the 390, that will make a fearsome Mustang. There are still a lot of goodies out there for them. One thing to consider in the 428 vs 390 , if you are operating on some kind of budget. Edelbrock makes heads for the FE block, and they will outflow all but the very best of the factory heads. Considering the cost of doing all the balancing etc to go with the 428, Bolting on a set of the Edelbrock heads could possibly run you less money and you will have about the same net hp as you would with the 428 and stock heads. The aluminum heads and intake will drop nearly 100 lbs off of your front end as well.
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Old 12-21-2004, 12:53 PM
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A 390 Mustang was feared in the day, a heated up 390 with new aluminum heads should be something special......
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Old 12-21-2004, 01:01 PM
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390 hop up

Thats for sure, and its a natural swap, can be done with factory parts. With the aluminum heads and intake, it will only weigh about 25-30 lbs more than a 351W.
Engine weights.
302= 460 lbs
351 W= 525 lbs
FE blocks=avg. 635 lbs.

TRIVIA:

The Boss 302 weighed in at 500 lbs. vs 460 lbs. THis was due intirely to the use of the Cleveland head.
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Old 12-21-2004, 01:04 PM
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Scat makes a 428 crank but it cost $750, they make 2 versions one that takes standard FE rods and one that uses BB Chevy rods. I would like to find a used crank and save some $$$ but I also fear that finding a good one might be tough. I would love to put Edelbrock heads on my stroker engine but they are just too expensive for me right now. I have a pair of C1AE heads that have the 428 ports but only use the smaller 390 valves. I was thinking about putting the larger 428 valves in these heads, but I have run into a problem with them. They are not drilled for accesories, I would like to keep my power steering and air conditoning on my Mustang. Like a fool I sold my 1968, 428 heads last January for $100, they would of been perfect for my Mustang. Those heads had all the accesory holes drilled in them plus bigger ports and valves. It also might be better for me to beef up the 390 instead of building a new engine. That old 390 has enough power to roast both 33x12.50 tires in the back of my 67 F250. Maybe I would be better off a buying a set of Edelbrock Heads and a better intake and putting it on the 390 and not build the stroker. Either way I go on this I know I will have a different Mustang, how many 390 powered 73 Mustangs Coups are there running around??? I need to get my head out of my....and get after this project before my Christmas Break is over and I return to school.
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Old 12-21-2004, 01:54 PM
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390 vs 428

Sounds to me like the easiest option would be to simply go with the 390. I am surprised the 428 heads arent drilled for all the accessories.
My parts intercange book only goes back to 63, but what I am surmizing is that what you have are a set of 61 390 heads. It could be they are heads off of the 330, 375, or 401 HP 390's. I think these were what were referred to as the Medium Rise heads. At any rate, they were good flowing heads, and of course putting the 428 valves in them wouldnt hurt a bit. Being those are a 61 production head could explain the reason they dont have any accessory holes drilled and tapped in them.

As for the rods, all the 390, 410,427,428, had the same rod dimensions, so using the 428 rods in your 390 isnt a problem.
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Old 12-21-2004, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by pmeisel

A 390 Mustang was feared in the day, a heated up 390 with new aluminum heads should be something special......
The 390 MUSTANG and FAIRLANE were slugs. It wasn't until FORD got off it's lazy *** and introduced the 428CJ in the Spring of 1968 was FORD again competitive on the street.

-Concocting The 428CJ-

You wanted a street competitive FORD before the CJ, you had to build it. GM, MOPAR or AMC, you simply bought it off the showroom floor.

A '73 MUSTANG is a heavy car. If you are not overly committed on FE parts, you might want to consider a 460.

________________________

Am Looking For Factory/Aftermarket Speed Parts For The MEL (Merc-Edsel-Linc-TBird) Engine Family (383-410-430-462) Produced From 1958 To 1968

Also Early FORD Special Service Tools

-MEL Engine Forum-
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Old 12-21-2004, 06:13 PM
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hopped up 390

Gee, you mean the guy back in my home town that had a 66 Comet 390 GT, that totally dominated all the Hotted up Chevelles and such around there, was a hoax?
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Old 12-21-2004, 07:31 PM
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Back in the 60's I had a couple friends with 67 390 Mustang 4 speed GTs.

They didn't do all that bad, but the engines were limited with rather small heads, restrictive intakes and small cams.

I've seen several recent builds where a basically stock 390 with Edelbrock heads, a decent cam, and a Perf RPM intake made well over 400 hp and torque.

Any engine can make good power if it is put together with the right parts.

Another friend a little later had a very fast 428 CJ 4 speed 69. MUCH faster than the 67 390's. Another friend had a 275 hp 327 4 speed 66 Chevelle who would regularly wipe the 390 Stang's, but that 428 would eat my 1970 Challenger 440 6 pack alive, either from a standing or rolling start.

It's all how they're put together.
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Old 12-22-2004, 01:22 AM
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Re: hopped up 390

Quote:
Originally posted by Max Keith
Gee, you mean the guy back in my home town that had a 66 Comet 390 GT, that totally dominated all the Hotted up Chevelles and such around there, was a hoax?
Probably not a hoax but either fluke or a ringer that had lots of stuff done he wasn't copping to. I don't remember one of those 390 Gts that could hold it's own against a 325 horse 396.

A word on the scat cranks. A while back they were ebaying some of the FE stroker cranks so I emailed them about rod/piston combos and more specifically what pistons they recomended. They didn't have a clue and told me to reseach it on my own. Kind of sorry tech support I'd say.
If the block will sonic test for a healthy overbore, I would cut down the snout on the good steel 391 crank and keep it a short stroke motor, but that's just me. I like over square engines. I know it's old tech but if you look at all the hottest engines from the muscle car era they had a bore that was greater than the stroke. A good example was the Olds 400. The 65-67 was a short stroke engine and a good runner. In 68 they went to the longer stroke and made the bore smaller and those engines were slugs.
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