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Old 08-30-2010, 06:10 AM
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Ford Model A Engine "Swap"

What is the easiest "new" engine to put in a boxed stock model a frame? I am not a model a expert, but am looking to get one. However after looking inside a stock model a there is 5 pedals and two sticks (correct me if am wrong). And to drive with all this is a nightmare i think.

Besides i want a more reliable engine and trans than the stock l-head, and offcourse i want more than 40hp

Many people will tell me to buy a custom made frame instead of a modified stock one, however to be able to register the car in norway, the frame and body needs to be stock, but it can be upgraded.

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Old 08-30-2010, 07:04 AM
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This is the layout of a Model T:

Clutch (L), reverse (C), brake (R) and starter pedals, lever on the floor for 2-speed rear (if equipped, R), lever for parking brakes (L), levers on the steering column for ignition advance/retard (left side) and throttle (the "A" might have gone to a floor throttle).

Obviously, it takes some practice to become proficient at this, it's quite a departure from modern vehicles. At the time, however, the resemblance to tractor controls was no coincidence.

IIRC, the Model A was the first Ford to use a "standard" pedal layout (L to R)- clutch brake and throttle on floor, w/a gearshift to the right- so I'm not sure why yours would have 5 pedals.

AFA an engine swap, if you just have to do something, I suppose a flathead V8 would be my choice.
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Old 08-30-2010, 07:19 AM
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I would go with a modern 4 cylinder. They will give you the most room, easy to route intaek, and exhaust, and will supply plenty of power. I don't know whats available in Normway but over here a Zetec, Ecotec, Duratec, Quad 4, etc. can be done with a few off the shelf swap parts. You could even consider Asian drive trains. A mazda, nissian, toyota, etc 4 cylinder would be plenty capable as well. Last but not least is the Ford 2.3L turbo engine. They can be picked up for a song over here and are plenty tough to make 350+ hp with just a turbo swap.

A lot of people put flat head fords in them and there's nothing wrong with it. I'd like to see something a little more current that makes more power, lasts longer, and weighs less though.
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Old 08-30-2010, 07:25 AM
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Ford Model A Engine "Swap

The controls are, left to right, clutch, brake, starter button (just above and to the right of brake), throttle, foot rest, gear shift and hand emergency brake. The Model A is easy to drive and no different than almost any 3 speed standard shift transmission. I agree about a Ford flathead as a replacement engine.
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Old 08-30-2010, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cunningham
The controls are, left to right, clutch, brake, starter button (just above and to the right of brake), throttle, foot rest, gear shift and hand emergency brake. The Model A is easy to drive and no different than almost any 3 speed standard shift transmission. I agree about a Ford flathead as a replacement engine.

I'm not trying to bash this idea, as i believe each person should build their car the way they want it, but why is the flat head ford idea so popular? I've only built one flat head ford and after that I can't see why a person would want to "upgrade" to that engine when there are so many better choices.

Its not period correct for that car or anything like that either, so I really can't make sense of it. I can understand the brand loyalty but Ford made a lot of other good engines that would work much better. What is the appeal in using such a poor design?

Again, I believe a person should use what they want, but what is the reasoning behind wanting that engine?
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Old 08-30-2010, 08:13 AM
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Thanks for the info guys!

cobalt327: I have only seen the inside of a stock model a, and it had more than 3 pedals and a gear shifter

turbolover: What isnt possible to get in norway, i'll import from the states. If i decide to get a Model A, i have to import it from the states because there are very few of them i norway, which means the prices are very high. the cheapest one i've found that runs is for sale at $30k...
I will look into those 4 cylinder engines you talk about, but most likely i'll go for a ford engine.

cunningham: I did a simple google search for Ford Flathead and it seems to be 5 different versions (221,239,136,255, & 337). Which one would fit the model a frame best?
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Old 08-30-2010, 08:26 AM
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The flathead is the classic old school upgrade for a 4 banger..but these days I agree with the guys going for the late model 4 cycl that drops right in and that can be used with either a stick or auto..Just find a donor car and get all the pieces from it..one will also need to change the rear end arrangement because of the original torque tube drive..Unless you are super machinist and can fabricate an adapter for a modern trans to bolt to that torque tube..probably in my part of the world a ford ranger p/u would make a good donor for this kind of project..

Sam
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Old 08-30-2010, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneMoreTime
The flathead is the classic old school upgrade for a 4 banger..but these days I agree with the guys going for the late model 4 cycl that drops right in and that can be used with either a stick or auto..Just find a donor car and get all the pieces from it..one will also need to change the rear end arrangement because of the original torque tube drive..Unless you are super machinist and can fabricate an adapter for a modern trans to bolt to that torque tube..probably in my part of the world a ford ranger p/u would make a good donor for this kind of project..

Sam
BINGO! a Ranger makes a great donor viehicle- you can get a running one over here for like $500. All cleaned up they look pretty cool too with dual plugs per cylinder. Swap in some turbo pistons, a mild turbocharger setup, and polish/paint some pieces and you have a real neat looking 350+hp engine that is cheap to build. I wish GM would have made a turbo engine comparable to the 2.3L Ford. At least they had the Quad 4 and have the Ecotec.
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Old 08-30-2010, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbolover
I'm not trying to bash this idea, as i believe each person should build their car the way they want it, but why is the flat head ford idea so popular?
It's a icon, it was the first engine that would have been swapped into an A model back when the flathead V8 first became available in '32. It looks right at home, it doesn't overtax the basic design of the A, and has a "cool factor" that no 4-cylinder short of an Offy can match, IMO.



The OP asked for opinions, he's got mine!

MANY Good photos- http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3820986

HR Mag history of flathead Ford- http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...ine/index.html

INFO- http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/flathead_home.htm

A TON of flathead links- http://www.roadsters.com/flathead/
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Old 08-30-2010, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneMoreTime
The flathead is the classic old school upgrade for a 4 banger..but these days I agree with the guys going for the late model 4 cycl that drops right in and that can be used with either a stick or auto..Just find a donor car and get all the pieces from it..one will also need to change the rear end arrangement because of the original torque tube drive..Unless you are super machinist and can fabricate an adapter for a modern trans to bolt to that torque tube..probably in my part of the world a ford ranger p/u would make a good donor for this kind of project..

Sam
Could you specify the models that would work? and whats P/U?
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Old 08-30-2010, 08:50 AM
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Model A frame info- useful no matter WHAT you put into it- http://www.plucks329s.org/frame.htm

"P/U"= pickup truck.
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Old 08-30-2010, 08:55 AM
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To me it'll always be a tractor engine, and I guess that's why it has a lack of "cool factor". Looks are finicky like that, what some people think is cool, other think is ugly. My advice to the OP is build it the way you want, some people like a retro theme, some people like performance- only you should decide what works for you.
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Old 08-30-2010, 09:03 AM
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Back to the Flathead: Any companies in the us that sells rebuilt or new flatheads?
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Old 08-30-2010, 09:08 AM
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There is not a lot of Rangers in Norway. There is lots of Fiesta, Focus, Mondeo, Escort, Transit and Mondeo's, but none of these will probably work :-\
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Old 08-30-2010, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnchr82
There is not a lot of Rangers in Norway. There is lots of Fiesta, Focus, Mondeo, Escort, Transit and Mondeo's, but none of these will probably work :-\

Any of them may work. European version of these cars are often built better than US versions. You just need a good RWD drivetrain.

As far as "working" any engine you choose will require fabrication work, essentially they will all "work" about the same as long as they are not too long (no inline 8's).When looking at a flathead Ford built and shipped to norway you're probably in the $10K+ plus range (US dollars). When looking at using an engine available in your country you're looking at the $1k (maybe even less) range.

If you have the money build what you want, but to me cost is always a factor. See what is available local first.
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