Frame paint ideas; thoughts? - Page 2 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Body - Exterior
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2012, 05:22 AM
Irelands child's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: Ford engine specifications Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 4,717
Wiki Edits: 8

Thanks: 12
Thanked 147 Times in 131 Posts
If you are going to the trouble of media blasting to "white" bare metal, why not consider having it powder coated? While Imron will do a decent job and can be home applied (of course using the right safety equipment) it wont get into and around corners as well as an electrostatically applied powder coating which will actually migrate into tubular frame channels. Imron WILL chip fairly easily, powder coating, if correctly applied resists day to day chipping (which now opens the door to the PC naysayers!!!). My last car had an Imron painted frame, this one has PC - and it is holding up much better. Then POR15 - if applied correctly according to the label can be a good product. I will take days to weeks to completely dry though enough to reassemble the vehicle without dings and scratches.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2012, 07:10 PM
eastbaycustoms's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 8
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
ive never had luck with powder coat. it never gets down into the crevices, and we end up blasting powder coat off. i just had some patio furniyure that flaked the powder coatiing off and was rusting underneath, everywhere. it also chips out of the corners. but its your choice, just trying to give advice.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2012, 07:17 PM
hp246's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 290
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 12
Thanked 11 Times in 8 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irelands child
If you are going to the trouble of media blasting to "white" bare metal, why not consider having it powder coated? While Imron will do a decent job and can be home applied (of course using the right safety equipment) it wont get into and around corners as well as an electrostatically applied powder coating which will actually migrate into tubular frame channels. Imron WILL chip fairly easily, powder coating, if correctly applied resists day to day chipping (which now opens the door to the PC naysayers!!!). My last car had an Imron painted frame, this one has PC - and it is holding up much better. Then POR15 - if applied correctly according to the label can be a good product. I will take days to weeks to completely dry though enough to reassemble the vehicle without dings and scratches.
Both Imron and Powder a options, though I be curious what the price is. If memory serves me, I think his budget was around $600 for the complete job. I mentioned having professional blasting, because you can get a frame done around me for between $200- $250. Materials and safety equipment will quickly approach that for a DIY blast job. I've used POR. You can start putting stuff together after 24-48 hours. I had a can stuck to my garage floor for a couple of years, before I took a sledge hammer and busted it off. Left it there just to see how long it would stay stuck.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2012, 09:57 PM
eastbaycustoms's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 8
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
hes right. blasting is around 250 for a frame that size. as long as its clean. either way thats the way to start.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 04-09-2012, 11:08 AM
bullheimer's Avatar
NEVER use credit cards!
 

Last journal entry: car with tt2's, (stockers going back on)
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: North of Seattle
Posts: 2,524
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
just posting to say yeah, do the sandblasting. cant help you on the other issues, of airtightness etc.

my frame was sandblasted, quality red oxide primer, then just black frame paint. ten years ago still no rust. i have C channel frame (from a 79). good luck with the toy. i would maybe use a powder coating company to sand blast if you have to but i would NOT powder coat an off road vehicle due to the chipping issue because you are going to throw alot of rocks, and maybe drag your frame over them too. not like that wouldnt remove the paint either, but still. easier to fix paint than pc.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 04-10-2012, 08:20 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 11
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Regarding the inside:
I've been talking to welders and the take on airtightness is that it's a fine idea, just a lot of work. So I'm going to make some proof-of-concept pieces (like, take six plates and see if I can make an airtight box out of them), and practice on a spare frame I have, and go from there. If all fails, I'll just clean it and pump it full of somekinda oil, and just resign myself to having to redo that now and then.

What I really like about the idea is that it's completely reversible. Shooting internal frame sprays (as opposed to just oil)... is not.

Regarding the outside:
I'm glad to hear that epoxy primers can be rolled. I don't want to spray not because of cost (I have all the equipment, including spray guns), but because of local air pollution.

So here's my plan so far (for the outside):
* wash with degreaser,
* pressurewash with straight water
* sandblast
* pressurewash again to get any remaining sand and metal chunks and other crud, dry thoroughly
* roll two or three coats of 2-part epoxy primer, let them cure as long as necessary
* roll two or three coats of 2-part implement paint
* call it done, touch up in the future as needed

For specific product... name-brand Imron is too expensive. For implement paint I'm thinking Valspar. For the epoxy primer...dunno. Suggestions? I'm thinking I'll need a high-build one to fill in light pitting from existing surface rust.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-2012, 01:05 PM
bullheimer's Avatar
NEVER use credit cards!
 

Last journal entry: car with tt2's, (stockers going back on)
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: North of Seattle
Posts: 2,524
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
i like your plan and as a matter of fact plan on doing exactly that to my truck and here is why.

because when i said "no rust so far" that was total BS. i went outside and washed it down really good and this is what i found besides nine tons of Buff colored overspray: little areas that looked just like oil stains, except when i washed and rubbed them to remove them they did not remove: because it is rust spots starting to come thru. and they are everywhere! my plan is not to reprimer tho but just hit it with some Rust Mort, let dry then do what you are doing with the black john deer paint or whatever. i would spray it if i didnt have so many parts i dont want painted, air pollution or not. i have to do this because i want to get top dollar for it and it's for sale so....

i would blame it on the red oxide used not being as high quality like the sign shops, like i thought it was. also, because it was sprayed, i think even with two coats, it wasn't as thick as a couple brushed coats would have been. that and the fact that the frame paint was just generic crap that the paint shop had on hand at the time. Your plan to use two part paint would have to be better than just the john deer stuff i plan on using. but i dont plan on having this truck for long, unfortunately, (it's my 'baby') as i said.

anyway, i like your plan again, think it will hold up longer than mine did. especially with an epoxy primer (like my buff job) instead of red oxide. red oxide is pretty damned good stuff. i have seen it bead up water like crazy in the rain (at least the stuff my sign shop used), however it isn't spozed to be waterproof like epoxy or urethane primer is (which is why i painted my truck with urethane). as far as boxing the frame, i dont remember what you said it looked like already, if its almost all boxed already or not, so i got no opinion on doing that and making it airtight. i know when exposed to air, water will dry out. however, when exposed to air it is also exposed to mud, which retains moisture and makes for rust so.... don't know what to tell you. i've heard water will get sucked into anywhere, and that is probably why you want to coat the inside with oil, so that all sounds good. but i'm not a physicist.

Last edited by bullheimer; 04-12-2012 at 01:15 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-2012, 01:11 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 11
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
You're talking just about my outside plan, right? So you're saying that apparently moisture penetrated the paints you used and started to rust the metal underneath? Are you sure that it didn't just come from the other side of the metal (the inside of the frame rails)? I've looked at a few Toyota frames, 2wd and 4wd, and I've never seen one that wasn't fully boxed except the very rear end, but you're saying yours is a single-C-section like a Ford Ranger's?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-2012, 01:42 PM
bullheimer's Avatar
NEVER use credit cards!
 

Last journal entry: car with tt2's, (stockers going back on)
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: North of Seattle
Posts: 2,524
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
yes, i am certain. my frame metal is like 1/4" thick. (fyi its a 1979 frame), and please note my location and that my truck had been parked outside for most of the time since i painted it. not offroaded much either. i tell you too, the salt they put down on the road last couple of winters really played a part. not quite the Rochester Rash, but you can see my chrome wheel centers are rusty now and some places in the body that did not get the mud washed out well are showing rust signs too, like the folded over rear edge of my front fenders. NOT ENOUGH GAP for air flow or water to wash out, on one side, which has rust, compared to the other side, which has NO rust. air is actually your FRIEND. but you have to be able to wash out the crap that gets in there. on these tri-fives, that also means blowing out the channel under the cowl netting if it gets fallen leaves down in there. no, mud, leaves, sand, any kind of crap staying stuck will retain moisture, so if you can't wash it out regularly you probably are better off boxing it and making it water tight as you can. just that it's a lot of work to do that, right? verses washing it regularly. Think of your car being like your teeth. good analogy.

and the times i did go wheelin and covered the frame with mud i was diligent in doning full rain gear and hitting the car wash, getting on my back and trying to reach all the crap. worst was this muddy river clay that just stayed stuck on everything everywhere. it's not like i just let it go, and still, to quote neil young, Rust never sleeps! (Damned Neil has never been wrong about anything!)

Last edited by bullheimer; 04-12-2012 at 01:59 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2012, 07:47 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: N Ga.
Posts: 271
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
I don't care what you do, or how you do it. If it's steel it's gonna rust. Period. Best you can do is hope to keep the rust at bay for a while.
You can have it dipped, and stripped clean, then dunk it in a vat of POR-15,
coating it inside and out. then paint it with whatever coating you want to.
Eventually, the rust monster will get to it.

If you are over 30, and sandblast it to clean metal. Epoxy prime it, and paint it with a good qualty enamel, or urethane. It should out last you.
Eventually there will be a few rust spots pop up. but it will remain structurally sound for longer that you will be able to use it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 05-18-2012, 08:13 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 11
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I'm holding off on painting the frame until I finish modifying it (wheelbase stretch via spring swap), and I'm running out of time before I have to leave in June. I understand that epoxy primer can take days to cure between coats. There's no way I'll have it fully painted in 2 weeks. Is it a good idea to get one or two coats of primer in, but nothing else, and leave it (outside, maybe under a tarp) for as long as 7 months, some of which will have lots of rain? Or should I just leave it alone until I have a month-long window to do all the painting at once?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 05-18-2012, 08:48 PM
OneMoreTime's Avatar
Hotrodders.com moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Health and safety in the shop or garage
Last journal entry: Yard Dog pic
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Washington State
Age: 69
Posts: 7,025
Wiki Edits: 3

Thanks: 24
Thanked 98 Times in 94 Posts
Automotive epoxy such as SPI cures very quickly and I have items here that I shot several years ago and stored that are still good and showing no rust..

Sam
__________________
I have tried most all of it and now do what is known to work..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2012, 06:07 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: N Ga.
Posts: 271
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by moroza
I'm holding off on painting the frame until I finish modifying it (wheelbase stretch via spring swap), and I'm running out of time before I have to leave in June. I understand that epoxy primer can take days to cure between coats. There's no way I'll have it fully painted in 2 weeks. Is it a good idea to get one or two coats of primer in, but nothing else, and leave it (outside, maybe under a tarp) for as long as 7 months, some of which will have lots of rain? Or should I just leave it alone until I have a month-long window to do all the painting at once?
You can epoxy prime, I would do that as soon as it's stripped.
as far as "under a tarp", depending upon where you live I would forgo the tarp, and let it sit "naked" (in epoxy of course) as the tarp will restrict air flow. and allow condensation. Now if you live in Death Valley, a tarp may be a good thing (to keep it from being sandblasted again, by nature). I have also been known to epoxy prime, and then shoot a coat of enamel on it if it's going to sit for a long time (12 months or more).
You should be good with epoxy, and no tarp for a year or so.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 05-24-2012, 04:19 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 11
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Seeing a few people here and elsewhere mention SPI, I gave them a call to ask about their epoxy primer. I spoke to a very helpful gentleman whose name I forget, who recommend that I forgo any kind of topcoat because it'll never see the sun and the topcoat won't be as strong as the primer anyway. Does that sound right to yall?

He also said that it'd be ok to leave the factory paint (itself epoxy, allegedly) where it isn't corroded, just to scuff it a bit on the border/overlap areas. That'll save me a bunch of work removing the cab.

I dug up an old sandblaster and some safety gear, and tried my hand at sandblasting for the first time. It looks like it'll go well, I just need something better for the lungs than plain old silica. I hear that alu oxide and this stuff called "Black Beauty" are the best for what I'm doing, and don't cost much more than sand. Suggestions?

Some areas on the frame are pitted, not too heavy, but with some "pinhole" pits that go pretty deep. I don't think the sand can reach down there. What should I do about them? Chemicals? Ignore them? Keep a-blastin' til they're gone?






Last edited by moroza; 05-24-2012 at 04:26 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 05-24-2012, 07:04 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
Posts: 1,002
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 55
Thanked 73 Times in 64 Posts
I've been having a lot of rust come back through on my Mustang that was in their epoxy. It's discouraging because the panels were taken down to clean shiny metal before and covered with two coats of epoxy. I was hoping it would have held up better than that. In fact that bare spots that I haphazardly put some black rustoleum on to keep them from flashing until I could recoat everything even held up better (as in they didn't rust).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Body - Exterior posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Your thoughts on StarFire paint? chappell Body - Exterior 3 05-06-2009 12:30 PM
Frame Finish Ideas Brett_PM Body - Exterior 4 07-15-2007 06:37 AM
Wild cooling ideas - thoughts? '67Pony Engine 17 11-12-2003 07:14 PM
FT360 .....ideas, thoughts, suggestions Moby302 Engine 2 08-25-2003 03:14 PM
Build your own frame? Any basic thoughts? Madd Syntst Suspension - Brakes - Steering 9 11-28-2002 09:00 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.