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Old 08-25-2013, 04:06 PM
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Frame Restoration Concerns

Hello, I have a 1970 buick lesabre I am working on restoring. I have it stripped down to the frame and I am currently sandblasting it. I have some questions/concerns about the frame.

My major concern is that I am sandblasting the rails and it is taking the paint and surface rust off but there is heavy rust that is embedded in the frame. Sandblasting, naval jelly, evaporust, sanding, and angle grinder with a wire brush are all the methods I have tried so far with no luck. The frame rail has been the worst, but throughout the whole frame there is spots where there is just heavy rust that I cant remove. Since this is my first restoration, I am wondering if maybe I am worrying too much.
If I prime over these small spots, will the rust continue to grow? I live in Illinois so the frame wont abused too much.

There is also hard to reach places, like inside of the frame, where there is heavy rust. In these places, the look isn't so critical to me, I just want to prevent it from rusting through. I know there is internal frame coating by eastwood but that seems a bit pricey. Is there anything cheaper that I could buy locally as well?

I know there are spots inside the frame that are impossible to reach so I'm sure they will be prone to rust. How long would it take for it to rust through completely? Since this is my first restoration, I don't have a sense of time for rusting in steel. This is what worries me the most.

Since I am sandblasting the frame, I will be priming with a epoxy primer and then going over it with a chassis black paint.

Thank you for any help in advance
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Old 08-25-2013, 04:23 PM
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First of all, how big is the compressor your using? Does it have enough sustained pressure to get the sand blasting into the pits?

From the pictures, it does look as though there is still a fair amount of rust and in a perfect world, it should be removed. Could you concentrate on those areas a little more to get a better profile before priming?

Using a quality Epoxy, (Like SPI) will seal those areas and not allow moisture or air to at the those places and slow down the rusting process, however, as I mentioned, in a perfect world it would be great to get rid of all the rust.

Chances are that the frame would last a fairly long time if sealed properly and without physically seeing the frame, only in pictures, I don't know how thin the frame is in spots...but, from the pictures, it looks as though you do have a fair amount of metal left.

If this was my frame, I would do what I could to clean up those concerning areas as best you can...invest in a quality Epoxy, again SPI makes the best I've used. This Epoxy will give you a 7 day window that you can apply your chassis Black. If you go past that window, this Epoxy needs to be sanded and sands well.

If at all possible, stay away from Eastwood products when it comes to paint, they are relabeled products from other manufacturer's and you don't know what your getting.

If you need more information on SPI products or any other area of concern, let me know and I'll help where I can

Welcome to the forum.

The picture shows very small and I can't enlarge it...even a bigger picture would help.

Ray
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Old 08-25-2013, 04:30 PM
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I agree with Ray, also you could try using a smaller media to blast the areas of rust that are still left on the frame. Sometimes the pits are too small for the media being used. If you are using sand to blast with, put down a tarp and reuse the sand, each time it will get smaller and get into those tight areas better, however it will also work slower each time you reuse it because it is smaller and not as abrasive.

Kelly
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Old 08-25-2013, 05:02 PM
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Yeah, I have plastic enclosing the frame and I am reusing the sand. It isn't regular playsand, it's the stuff that menards sells.

It is a 26gallon compressor. It keeps up pretty well. Tough spots like this I let the compressor get to the 120psi and then I sandblast. I can try going over it a couple more times but I don't know if it'll have an effect.

The frame is not in bad shape, I have welded on new pieces where it rusted through but that wasn't very much at all.

Do you guys have any recommendations for the inside of the frame? Or would I be okay just priming what I can reach and moving on?

Thank you for the welcome. Here are some better pictures.
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Old 08-25-2013, 05:20 PM
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You do appear to have a lot of metal still there in the pictures that you showed. Your compressor, being a 26 gallon tank is actually very small...the tank...I would assume that the CFM out put is low as well. They don't usually put a high CFM compressor head on a small holding tank...and in there lies a big problem when sand blasting. If you let your tank fill to 120 PSI, you have about 5 seconds of forceful air, after that your teasing the rust and not removing it. Most compressors used for sand blasting will run a CFM rating of 15 or higher, I would estimate yours at 4 or 5. You can check by looking at the the tag on the compressor that gives you the output specifications.

If you want the rust removed in a timely manor, a larger compressor is a must. As mentioned, it is best to remove as much rust as possible, even on the inside (that's where the water collects and much of the rust is formed).

The pictures are much better...thank you.

Sorry I don't have better news, but, these are the facts.

Ray
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Old 08-25-2013, 06:32 PM
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Yeah, a bigger compressor isn't a big concern for me now. I can live with constant waiting. The sandblaster I'm using is rated at 8cfm @ 100psi. I usually just get the motor running on the air compressor and then pulse on and off with the gun so it gives it time to catch back up. Before it gets to shut off at 120psi, I shoot burst until about 100psi then I let it build back up. It removes surface rust no problem and pretty quick in my opinion.
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Old 08-25-2013, 06:56 PM
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It will work...no doubt...it's just the time factor and the amount of moisture created when blasting. Just be patient and get as much rust out as possible...it will pay off in the end.

Ray
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Old 08-25-2013, 08:18 PM
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Something else that may help you a little is to take a pick and scratch as much of the rust out of the pits before you try to blast them. If you can get the majority out then the blaster (which I am assuming is also a smaller version if only 8 CFM) will do much better at removing the rust. For the inside, aside from having the frame dipped in some way, about all you can do if get what you can then use a cavity wax to coat the inside. Best wishes on the repairs, keep us informed on the progress, and as always if you have any more questions we are here and glad to help.

Kelly
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Old 08-26-2013, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
First of all, how big is the compressor your using? Does it have enough sustained pressure to get the sand blasting into the pits?

From the pictures, it does look as though there is still a fair amount of rust and in a perfect world, it should be removed. Could you concentrate on those areas a little more to get a better profile before priming?

Using a quality Epoxy, (Like SPI) will seal those areas and not allow moisture or air to at the those places and slow down the rusting process, however, as I mentioned, in a perfect world it would be great to get rid of all the rust.

Chances are that the frame would last a fairly long time if sealed properly and without physically seeing the frame, only in pictures, I don't know how thin the frame is in spots...but, from the pictures, it looks as though you do have a fair amount of metal left.

If this was my frame, I would do what I could to clean up those concerning areas as best you can...invest in a quality Epoxy, again SPI makes the best I've used. This Epoxy will give you a 7 day window that you can apply your chassis Black. If you go past that window, this Epoxy needs to be sanded and sands well.

If at all possible, stay away from Eastwood products when it comes to paint, they are relabeled products from other manufacturer's and you don't know what your getting.

If you need more information on SPI products or any other area of concern, let me know and I'll help where I can

Welcome to the forum.

The picture shows very small and I can't enlarge it...even a bigger picture would help.

Ray
123p
I don't mean to interrupt this SPI commercial with one of my own. First of all this particular application would be better suited for the moisture cured aluminum primer and topped off with AG 111. The reason is very simple this combo will do thousands hours of salt spray and and offer much more chemical and acid resistance. This will also level up and seal the rust pitting. Your advice on refinishing work is second to none and I must say thank you for the countless people you help. But this application needs to go industrial.
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Old 08-26-2013, 06:22 PM
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Thank you for the kind words Pat...I sincerely appreciate them. Unfortunately, I can only recommend what I know works...I haven't tried your product and am confident that it does do what you say it does but without me trying a product first hand I feel that I can't make a recommendation either way.

As I've mentioned many times, I was a devoted PPG DP line of Epoxy fan for years. After being told how great SPI was and trying the product, I can recommend it. I use it and am happy with the results. I'm not trying to make this an SPI commercial...if a product does what the manufacturer claims and meets or exceeds my expectations, I will sing it's praises...and SPI has done exactly that and I'm not the easiest guy to convince. PPG did work and worked well, SPI just did more...the price point wasn't an issue, the quality was.

Again Pat, Thank You for the kind words, I'm not as familiar with the industrial side of rust protection, I apologize for that and hope you understand my point of view.

With Sincere Best Regards

Ray
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Old 08-26-2013, 06:48 PM
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Ray sometimes my approach could use a little polish. For that I apologize. I'm known to be a bit fanatical when it comes to rust as it is our arch enemy when restoring a car. I've spent the last 30 years fighting rust. It's turned me into a cranky old man. If you have a US address I'd would love for you to try a couple of our products because I'm sure you'd find it very useful. Keep up the good work and thanks again.
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Old 08-26-2013, 07:04 PM
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Pat...if you wish to polish your approach, could I recommend 3M's perfect...I've been using it for years...sorry Pat, I couldn't resist. But, did you notice...I'm recommending something other than SPI...LOL.

Pat, I do have a US address I can use. It's not mine but it is a customer of mine's address and I'm sure he wouldn't mind if I used it. I will PM you the co-ordinates in the morning.

I am not against trying products and feel that is a great way to learn about what's out there...broaden ones horizons so to speak. If I could get (I'm sure that you would send them regardless) the tech sheets and all that goes with it...I do have a relatively small but rusted project that I would be happy to try it on.

Thank You Pat

Ray
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Old 08-26-2013, 07:17 PM
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Thanks Ray, Pm me with your US address I have a couple of items that I think you'll find interesting and fun to play with.
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Old 08-26-2013, 07:54 PM
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Thanks Ray, Pm me with your US address I have a couple of items that I think you'll find interesting and fun to play with.
Pat, when I hear the words "moisture cured" the first product that comes to mind is POR15. Is your product similar to theirs? If not what is the difference? Is it a "rust convertor" type product or is the metal supposed to be bare and clean prior to application? I am not trying to be critical, I would like to know more about what you have to offer.
Thanks

Kelly
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Old 08-26-2013, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
Thank you for the kind words Pat...I sincerely appreciate them. Unfortunately, I can only recommend what I know works...I haven't tried your product and am confident that it does do what you say it does but without me trying a product first hand I feel that I can't make a recommendation either way.

As I've mentioned many times, I was a devoted PPG DP line of Epoxy fan for years. After being told how great SPI was and trying the product, I can recommend it. I use it and am happy with the results. I'm not trying to make this an SPI commercial...if a product does what the manufacturer claims and meets or exceeds my expectations, I will sing it's praises...and SPI has done exactly that and I'm not the easiest guy to convince. PPG did work and worked well, SPI just did more...the price point wasn't an issue, the quality was.

Again Pat, Thank You for the kind words, I'm not as familiar with the industrial side of rust protection, I apologize for that and hope you understand my point of view.

With Sincere Best Regards

Ray
How long have you been using SPI epoxy? I thought it has only been relatively recently, as in the last several months or so?
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