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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2013, 01:58 AM
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Super70DeadSled
I think that GM only offered the 302s in Camaros from 67-69.Im not aware of any other car that had that engine option? The option code started with Z28,The SS car was a Z27 and the RS was a Z22 from what I remember

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2013, 06:46 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
The 327 will make more power than the 305,yes. The 327 can rev higher,more freely,w/e terminology you wish to put here,,,,have a lower piston speed at same RPM,,,there fore the 327 can rev a little higher,if you take advantage of this then the power will come on later than the 305(leave the 350 out for now)
If you change the heads, cam, intake, exhaust, etc. to raise the rpm on the 327 so that the piston speed matches that of the 305 then yes that is true.

BUT piston speed is almost never a limiting factor on a street engine and we're not discussing two completely different engines, but rather two identical engines with the exception of the piston diameter and crankshaft throw.

The 327 will have more power at every engine speed when compared to an equally built 305.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2013, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Super70DeadSled View Post
Sorry if I'm out of line here, but first any 327 would be better than any 305 any day. Even the '90 or so TPI from the third gen Camaros and Firebirds that made something like 220hp. More cubes, more power. Plain and simple. But if we are talking about application, then the story changes entirely. He's replacing a V6. So to start out, first, he'll get more power anyway. But the 327 won't like those gears AT ALL!!!! It may have a 2004r, or even better, a 700r4 which means better first gear to get off the line, but the 327 just won't be happy in that car. Especially in OD at 75 around what, 1700 or so RPMs? But again, it will be more powerful than the 6 cylinder that blew.

As for comparing cubes to strokes, well, all things being equal, in a balanced set up, the longer stroke always makes more torque at a lower RPM. That's why the 327 was used in Rally racing. They wanted to use it in road racing, (Trans Am) but the 5 liter limit caused GM to build the 302. (as I have read) Both 327 and 302 are high revving motors. But they did offer both of them in very large (by today's standards) cars like the Impala that this 327 came from. My mother had a '67 Impala that had a 302.
Not to downgrade here, but in the Honda "Tuner" world, rod/stroke ratio is a huge concern. I won't bore you with specifics, but with a tiny motor, every little thing comes into play.
About the Caddy 500 having loads of torque, (550 in 1970 to be exact), well, we are talking about a 500 cubic inch motor! That's a LOT of displacement! But the 472 makes 525 foot pounds. The difference is just under a quarter of an inch of stroke. At that size, 25 foot pounds is nothing.

As for every 327 and 350 coming from a Vette, mine did too. I was a bigger four door station wagon version of a Vette!!!!

Sorry to sound like a broken record, but to have a more fun car, sell the 327 and use that money to build that 350 block. Being a roller cam, that is good enough reason for me. More torque with the 350, more horsepower in a usable range, so on and so on.... Anyways, the police package gave the Caprice a 350 with TBI and that was a great set up!

And about that 7.5" rear, if it has better gears, use that. You could always go to the scrap yard and get another posi unit for it, if you get tired of peg-leggin'! And like the rest of us, you like to hold on to things, so just hold on to the current rear with posi for later. If you have enough left over from selling the 327, get some gears for it!
Not trying to argue with anyone but it seems that a lot of people say that the 327 won't like my car because its a heavy big car and the 327 would like something a bit lighter. My car weights about 3900lbs with no passengers or cargo. The 327 came out of a 68 impala, that has to be about the same weight maybe more. Yes the impala came with a 4 speed and probably some decent rear end gears but that is why I planned to put in some 3.73 in my car. Originally the 80 had a 200c tranny but I swapped it out for a 200-4r for highway travel which didn't really help because my combo of small motor 2.41 gears and overdrive was just to low rpm at 70mph. It did help top speed but that's not what I was after, basically I found myself constantly manually shifting from 3 to 4. After it was all said and done I did about double my fuel mileage to work and back everyday but I had to look ahead about a mile and pre plan all my up and down hill travels accordingly. Any how back to my point I am under the impression that the 327 will be ok in the 80. I won't be racing it just driving it every day, I'm not into tearing up the streets it's way to easy to get in trouble these days and not to mention it's unsafe. I could also use the 327 to mock up the build processes for the 350 and make the 327 easier to sell if it's in a car and someone can hear it run.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2013, 01:28 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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If you're going to be cruising at super low rpm then I would get a HV oil pump and be very careful when tuning your ignition curve and idle, transition, and primary circuits on your carb.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2013, 08:57 PM
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It's always the same old rhetoric about levers and piston speed and this and that. We're not talking about formula one or top fuel dragsters. I've driven 1960's era C40's and C50's (big trucks with dump beds that haul big loads) those are much more massive than any Impala. What were those powered with? Oh that's right, these "supposedly only good for high-revving" 283's and 327's. We can argue the science of it at it's extreme limits all day long but all that matters is that in a PRACTICAL APPLICATION, the sum of the parts out weigh the bore to stroke ratio. ESPECIALLY on identical platforms. Small ports, small valves, the right cam and CORRECT GEARING, will make more a difference than the miniscule amount of stroke the 305 provides over the 327. The fact that the 327 can take advantage of a larger cam at a low rpm (because it's a bigger engine than the 305) is a bigger factor than the bore to stroke ratio.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2013, 07:57 PM
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The solid lifter, Holley 4 barrel, 4speed equipped 302 engine was only available in the 67-69 Camaros with the Z28 option. Could it be your mother had a '68 Impala with a 307? 1968 was the first year the 307s were available.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2013, 11:49 PM
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Could it be your mother had a '68 Impala with a 307? 1968 was the first year the 307s were available.
I really wouldn't doubt it. As a kid (16-17 years old) I fell in love with the '69 Z28. I kept debating with her about the fact that they wouldn't have put that motor in the Impala. Her friend called me on it, and he explained everything about the 302 to me. Bore, stroke, compression ratio, cam specs. I only knew it was a high revving motor, and good for road racing. At which time he told me that her '68 DEFINITELY had the 302. He obviously knew a lot more than me, so I went with it. She had the '68 and before that a '63 SS.
If she was still alive, I could ask her. She actually left the car with my Father when she left him. My family always told me that he wanted that car because it had the 302.

But I've come to find out that a lot of things I was told weren't always the truth!

Oh, and if you're gonna change the gears anyway, then sure, put the 327 in there. But for the cost of having to refresh it, I personally would sell it, and build the 350, as well as change the gears.
You don't need to race to have a fun car. My '70 hearse weighs in around 7k. It's got the 472 in it. 525 foot pounds at my foot! It's a fun car to drive. My '88 Firebird Formula has a well built 383 and a lot of suspension work. My '73 Nova has a mildly built 350, and everything else is stock. PEG-LEGGIN'!!!! My '88 CRX has a 1.6l ZC motor in it. With the intake, header and muffler, I'm probably somewhere around 120hp to the fly wheel! Sure, it's not the fastest car, but it gets me through traffic. But when I want to take it up to the mountains, it holds it's own. All of my cars are fun cars, but I've only raced two of them.

I remember working on cop cars at my last job. The box Caprices (like yours) were really nice cars. You can drive all day long and still feel comfortable. And the 350 TBI had just enough power to have LOADS of fun! It wasn't neck breaking torque, or have 0-60 times in the 4, 5 or even 6 second range, but they were fun cars! The thing about them is they had a good amount of torque at low RPMs, which makes for a fun car.

Anyone who's owned a big block can tell you that. Low RPM torque = FUN!!

Last edited by Super70DeadSled; 06-19-2013 at 12:13 AM.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 06-19-2013, 09:05 AM
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The 80's caprice's are a very nice ride, that's why I like them so much. Having a sbc from the factory makes them very easy to modify and can be just as fast as any other sbc car from the 60's or 70's in my opinion. All my friends give me crap about my caprice because it is extremely out of style but I don't need a shiny new car. I just can't justify paying upwards of 20 grand for vehicle and no new cars last anyway. When my buddies are poking fun at my car I just tell them yeah that car is 31 years old, 100% stock, it's completely reliable, and cost me equal to about two of your car payments.
I will throw the 327 in the 80, mostly just so I can experience a car with a 327. I am a huge sbc fan so its more of a way for myself to appreciate a part of Chevrolet history. Install the engine, get it running, drive it for a bit, that's enough for me, ill get my fix.
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