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Old 04-02-2005, 09:48 PM
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fresh 383 - knock, smoke and a starter qs

Hi guys,

Today I've finally put my freshly built 383 into my 67 Camaro. 9.6:1 cr, 268XE Comp cam, 5.7 rods, 750 Edel. carb, Vortec heads with upgraded springs, 64 cc, rebuilt HEI dist. with stock springs, 2000 rpm torque converter and 3.73 rear gears, high torque mini starter, AFCO aluminum radiator with a shroud, Hooker headers, Performer RPM intake. The engine was broken in for 20 minutes on an engine stand a few months ago.

Overall, it was a scary experience for me: bad feeling about rear main seal, torque converter not properly bolted up and etc. etc. Very stressful day. Anyway, the car starts and idles at about 950 rpm, runs very rich. So far there is only one power steering bolt leaking. Rear main seal is holding up :-) Oil pressure is at 50 psi, temp is 180F with 190 thermostat.

- smoke is coming out of the pass. side baffle. PCV is hooked up on the driver's side. Brand new PCV, checked it out okay by putting air one way. Bad sign? Rings did not seat in?
- set the initial timing with vac. advance disconnected. 12 degrees. Total at 3000 rpm is 35. The car pings under light load, acceleration. Should I back off the initial to 6-8 degress and try again? Get a curve kit and try a combo of a light and strong springs in a distributor? Then shoot for 30-32 total? The gas is 91 octane.
- my mini starter exhibits almost the same symptoms I had with my old stock one: heat absorption. After running the engine, the starter barely is engaging even with my remote Ford starter solenoid. If I charge the battery, it turns the engine fine. Should I wrap it into a heat shield? I was under impression that mini starters don't absorb heat as bad as stock ones.

Thanks for reading and your help,
Denis
'67 Camaro RS
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Old 04-02-2005, 09:52 PM
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Your engine shouldn't ping with that low of compression. Recheck your distributor advance. Shoot for 32o to 36o total.
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Old 04-02-2005, 10:06 PM
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Nice looking engine!

Did you pull your plugs? The ping may be from the oil getting in there. Also a compression and leak down test may be in order. If it's the rings it should show up there.
Do your valve covers have baffles? Sometimes covers without baffles will shoot oil right up into the PCV valve and suck away. Try bakcing off the timing a few degrees and see what happens. At what RPM does it start to ping?

Chris
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Old 04-02-2005, 10:30 PM
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Thank you for your quick input, guys.

The spark plug color is white-greyish. I will shoot for 36 total timing again.
The pass. side valve cover has an oil filler plug and a generic PepBoy's baffle, the driver side is plugged and a PCV.

It starts pinging (rattling noise) at about 2000-2200 rpms. Should I lean the mixture out a little?

I have a 600 cfm Edel. carb in a great shape. Should I put that one on?

Thanks!
Denis
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Old 04-02-2005, 10:48 PM
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Try the timing first for the ping. What color is the smoke coming from the engine.
It seems odd that the plugs arent black and oily. I'd suggest doing the compression test to see how the rings or valves are. Im starting to wonder why it is smoking. Engine runs good other wise?

Chris
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Old 04-02-2005, 11:09 PM
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Engine runs great, the smoke out tail pipes is blueish and very suffocating. I need to lower the idle rpms, when I took the car for a test drive, it was lurching forward, I had to apply brakes to keep it from moving.

I will try doing the compression and vacuum tests. I will see if the vacuum needle is running up and down.

Thanks!
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Old 04-02-2005, 11:22 PM
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Might be rings or valves. Anything done to the heads besides springs? Also on the starter I would think they make heat Shields for the engine. Heat wraps do work but it might look a little better with a shield. I have the same problem with my starter. It heats up and then won't work right. Once the money comes around im getting the shield.

Chris
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Old 04-02-2005, 11:29 PM
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The heads are brand new Vortecs from Scoggin-Dickey. I will wrap my starter -- those headers generate so much heat.

Shoud I try running my other 600cfm Edel. carb? I realize it is small for this engine, but my operating rpms are only up to 5000-5500 max.
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Old 04-02-2005, 11:39 PM
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I really don't think it would be worth it. I mean it is a little small and more then likely would need to be rejetted. It won't do anything in the way of helping your problems. Yours is in timing and something yet undiscovered. Wrapping the starter should work. My headers get way to hot too. Even in a big car they are still really close go figure lol...

Chris
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Old 04-02-2005, 11:47 PM
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If your plugs are white/grayish its running lean. I'd step up one size (or two) on the main jets. The smaller carb may run leaner and would require more jetting to nail and would also be more sensative to jetting changes.
One thing to note....lots of oil in the cylinder will increase pre-detonation. That could be your pinging issue. Although...if the plugs are light with all that oil in there I would say your running really lean. Do all the plugs look the same? Usually the outside cylinders will be a bit darker because they run cooler than the inside cylinders but I would think the cylinder with the poor seal would show some deposits. You can have a busted oil ring, have great compression, run like a champ and never know accept for all the smoke. I have also had plasma rings take over 2000 miles to seat....are you running synthetic oil? It will never break in if you are....my gut tells me you have a bad ring.
Good luck!
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Old 04-02-2005, 11:56 PM
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I was going to suggest jetting up a little. If we look at this from a condition stand point. You have smoke...and then a ping...So im willing to bet the two are related. Since oil is getting in there then it very well could cause preingition and therfore pinging. Then we have to think where the oil comes from. That narrows it down to valves and rings. Backing off the timing might be enough to stop the pinging but you still got an oil problem. What kind of rings did you use? Some rings are very picky about the the cyd. wall surface.

Chris
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Old 04-03-2005, 12:13 AM
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Great ideas. I installed moly rings and checked the ring gap. It was within the specs. The engine was run on a stand twice and we did not see any smoke from that baffle a few months ago. Now something got added to the equation. I am using a 10w30 oil.

The vacuum test should show the ring condition, right? If I remember correcltly, the vacuum gauge needle will stay steady if the rings are good, and will bounce back and forth if there is a problem.

Again, thanks a lot for your advice. It's my first built so every little 'off-schedule' thing puts me in an 'elevated alert' mode.
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Old 04-03-2005, 12:25 AM
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It could be a little hard to tell with yours. Normally you would test it dry and then spray a little oil in and if it shoots way up your rings arent sealing correctly... Yours may already has oil going in all cyd. So it might be hard to tell if it is the rings. HOWEVER if you go around and test all cyd. you might find one that is way down. The spark plug on this one might be black with oil. Everything should be close to the other if you find one cyd. way out of spec. of the others it's a good bet your problem is there. 10w 30 is good oil to use. syn. is not good oil to use for new engines but reg. oil 10w 30 is fine.

Chris
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Old 04-03-2005, 12:46 AM
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What's the negative side of a busted oil ring? Smoke and messed up compression in that piston? I doubt I will manage to pull that motor out and go through all that struggle again :-) Can I live with that engine? Can I plug that valve cover baffle not to see that smoke? Or the pressure will be too high? I guess my oil comsumption will increase - I will have to keep an eye on oil level in the car.

Elevinpointsixtoone, did you engine smoke on you while your plasma rings were seating in?

Thanks!

Last edited by darom; 04-03-2005 at 01:01 AM.
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Old 04-03-2005, 01:36 AM
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hang on a minute, don't just go changing things because you "think" it might help. First of all, pinging under light load can be solved by backing off the vacuum advance. Not the mechanical. (there's no way to back off mechanical anyway, except by deleting some initial). Second, run the car in and give it a chance to break in the rings by running from 35 to 60 under heavy acceleration (not WOT) about 15-20 and letting it coast back to 30 or so.

Make sure your PCV is hooked up correctly and that you don't need to put any foam or steel wool in your baflle to keep oil from being sucked in.

"trying stuff" is not goign to help you. You need to figure out what is going on and solve it.

K
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