Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board

Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/)
-   Engine (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/engine/)
-   -   Fresh engine won't run - I'm stumped. (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/fresh-engine-wont-run-im-stumped-232286.html)

Dougie 04-27-2013 09:56 PM

Fresh engine won't run - I'm stumped.
 
I finally tried to start my 327 that I built over the past several months and when I hit the starter it fired immediately but ran rough for a few seconds and died. It sounded like it wasn't running on all cylinders. I turned the distributor counterclockwise to advance the timing a bit and got it to run for about 15 seconds but it ran rough enough that I shut it down. retarded the timing and then it backfired through carb.

Guessing I might be 180 out I switched the ignition wires to try to start using what was the #6 cylinder as #1. It didn't even try to start but I got a nice big flame out of the carb (Edelbrock 600 CFM).

I pulled all the spark plugs and removed the valve covers to check and be sure I had TDC on #1. Got compression on #1 where I should and I could look down the spark plug holes to verify #1 and #6 were at the top of piston travel. (It's easy cause the front clip is off the car). Have I done enough to confirm that It's not timing? I have a new Summit HEI distributor, new MSD wires. I can see fuel go in the carb when I move the linkage, so it seems I've got fuel and spark. I checked for any obvious vacuum leaks. I have the vacuum ports plugged on the carb and on the distributor. I have the large port on the carb connected to a PCV in the valve cover. The car has no power brakes. It has a new harmonic damper. The Edelbrock carb is manual choke and I bought it new in the box from a guy who had it sitting in his shop for several years. I took it apart to inspect it and reassembled using new gaskets but I didn't completely dissemble things, only the simple stuff.

Any thoughts? I'm gonna try to start it again tomorrow, but I haven't really identified anything. Thanks.

S10 Racer 04-27-2013 10:37 PM

To determine #1 TDC,remove all the spark plugs and hold your finger over the #1 plug hole. Have someone help you manually rotate the motor until the pressure pushes against your finger then slowly turn the motor until the mark on the harmonic balancer is lined up with the timing tab then check where your distributor is set. If all of this checks out, I would almost bet that the lifters are not adjusted properly. Are you running hydraulic or solids?

richard stewart 3rd 04-27-2013 10:42 PM

Hi
You might want to check your valve adjustment.
Rich

Dougie 04-28-2013 07:35 AM

I have verified the timing just as suggested. I also forgot to mention that I checked the lifter adjustment again. I adjusted them until I felt resistance on the pushrod then gave it 1/8 of a turn. Is that correct?

496CHEVY3100 04-28-2013 08:37 AM

Yes ,If both intake and exaust are closed.and lifters are pumped up,,, if not adjust the rocker down until it bottoms out the lifter then back it up 3/4 round.

68NovaSS 04-28-2013 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 496CHEVY3100 (Post 1670793)
Yes ,If both intake and exaust are closed.and lifters are pumped up,,, if not adjust the rocker down until it bottoms out the lifter then back it up 3/4 round.

Are you saying for the OP to bottom out (compress) the hydraulic lifter completely, then back out 3/4 of a turn?? :pain:

Dougie 04-28-2013 10:57 AM

Now I'm getting a little confused. How do you know if the lifter is pumped up? And could it be partially pumped up? ie. somewhere in the middle? then how would you know how far to back it off?

I read a post by Old Bogie describing how to set the lifters by starting with #1 at TDC, doing both valves, then moving 90 degrees and doing both on the next cylinder etc. I remember doing it that way years ago, but this time I followed a book that had you move it 45 degrees at a time and setting the specified intake or exhaust valve.

What does it take to get the lifters pumped up? Will priming the engine do that? Also Old Bogie recommended tightening 1/2 turn after the pushrod no longer has any play. Most things I've read say 1/8 to 1/4 turn. Bogie has given some pretty good advice in the past, so I'm inclined to listen to him. Are you out there Old Bogie???

spinn 04-28-2013 11:33 AM

There is a spring holding the plunger up. You tighten the rocker until it drags on the pshrod when twisting it. If you hand actuate the rocker you will feel the oil that is drawn into the lifter.

You adjust running and tighten/backoff until it stops ticking. A preload / lash spec is also possible.

speed round at the end.

oil
yes, turn engine 90 degrees every so often while priming
bogie is right with a caveat that it varies

bygddy 04-28-2013 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dougie (Post 1670835)
Now I'm getting a little confused. How do you know if the lifter is pumped up? And could it be partially pumped up? ie. somewhere in the middle? then how would you know how far to back it off?

I read a post by Old Bogie describing how to set the lifters by starting with #1 at TDC, doing both valves, then moving 90 degrees and doing both on the next cylinder etc. I remember doing it that way years ago, but this time I followed a book that had you move it 45 degrees at a time and setting the specified intake or exhaust valve.

What does it take to get the lifters pumped up? Will priming the engine do that? Also Old Bogie recommended tightening 1/2 turn after the pushrod no longer has any play. Most things I've read say 1/8 to 1/4 turn. Bogie has given some pretty good advice in the past, so I'm inclined to listen to him. Are you out there Old Bogie???

Bogie gives great advice, but he has been at this forever....as a rookie I use the jiggle up and down method on the pushrod, when it stops up and down movement I go half turn and call it done. The "spin" method I try every time for some reason (stubborn) and am too tight always. Even last week I finished installing heads, and once it was running I reset lash just backing them off till they clack, then went half turn in. Now thier good....but some were way over lashed....and guess which method I used initially......the guys that have done it lots have no issue, but rookies , me included, go to tight.

richard stewart 3rd 04-28-2013 03:38 PM

Hi
The lifter must be on the heal of the lobe to get an accurate adjustment, to accomplish this you split the firing order, 1843 6572 now with #1 Int, at full lift, #6 Int. lifter is on the heal of the lobe ready for adjustment.Loosen the adjuster nut until you can move the push rod up & down, then tighten the nut until it wont go up & down anymore then a half turn more on the nut.
Best of all to you.
Rich

#1 cylinder Intake Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #6 Intake Valve
#8 cylinder Intake Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #5 Intake Valve
#4 cylinder Intake Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #7 Intake Valve
#3 cylinder Intake Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #2 Intake Valve
#6 cylinder Intake Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #1 Intake Valve
#5 cylinder Intake Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #8 Intake Valve
#7 cylinder Intake Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #4 Intake Valve
#2 cylinder Intake Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #3 Intake Valve
now the exhaust
#1 cylinder Exhaust Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #6 Exhaust Valve
#8 cylinder Exhaust Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #5 Exhaust Valve
#4 cylinder Exhaust Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #7 Exhaust Valve
#3 cylinder Exhaust Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #2 Exhaust Valve
#6 cylinder Exhaust Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #1 Exhaust Valve
#5 cylinder Exhaust Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #8 Exhaust Valve
#7 cylinder Exhaust Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #4 Exhaust Valve
#2 cylinder Exhaust Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #3 Exhaust Valve

Dougie 04-29-2013 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richard stewart 3rd (Post 1670914)
Hi
The lifter must be on the heal of the lobe to get an accurate adjustment, to accomplish this you split the firing order, 1843 6572 now with #1 Int, at full lift, #6 Int. lifter is on the heal of the lobe ready for adjustment.Loosen the adjuster nut until you can move the push rod up & down, then tighten the nut until it wont go up & down anymore then a half turn more on the nut.
Best of all to you.
Rich

#1 cylinder Intake Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #6 Intake Valve
#8 cylinder Intake Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #5 Intake Valve
#4 cylinder Intake Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #7 Intake Valve
#3 cylinder Intake Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #2 Intake Valve
#6 cylinder Intake Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #1 Intake Valve
#5 cylinder Intake Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #8 Intake Valve
#7 cylinder Intake Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #4 Intake Valve
#2 cylinder Intake Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #3 Intake Valve
now the exhaust
#1 cylinder Exhaust Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #6 Exhaust Valve
#8 cylinder Exhaust Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #5 Exhaust Valve
#4 cylinder Exhaust Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #7 Exhaust Valve
#3 cylinder Exhaust Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #2 Exhaust Valve
#6 cylinder Exhaust Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #1 Exhaust Valve
#5 cylinder Exhaust Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #8 Exhaust Valve
#7 cylinder Exhaust Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #4 Exhaust Valve
#2 cylinder Exhaust Valve at full valve lift .... Adjust #3 Exhaust Valve

I've been reading a lot about this, and seen many opinions. I understand the above procedure should be very accurate. What I don't understand is why adjusting both valves when the piston is at TDC is less accurate. If the piston is at TDC, doesn't that mean that both valves are fully closed and the lifters are both on the bottom of the lobe, or is there some built in variance that would place the lifters on the ramp of the lobe leading to an inaccurate adjustment?

I also recall reading that my Comp cam has 4 degrees of advance built into it, so if that's true wouldn't that mean you could go 4 degrees BTDC and both intake and exhaust would be on the bottom of the lobe. Maybe I'm thinking too much here.

techinspector1 04-29-2013 11:01 AM

It may be possible for a rookie to have the finger and thumb "feel" necessary to use the "spin the pushrod" method and get the valve adjustment correct, but 99 times out of 100, the valves will end up too tight as related above. Please read through this tutorial and implement its instructions. It's pretty much bulletproof and I have received PM's from many fellows saying so....
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...stment_SBC/BBC

richard stewart 3rd 04-29-2013 07:13 PM

Hi
I'm sorry for not being clear on the subject.:spank:
The intake & exhaust on each cylinder your
doing do get adjusted at the same time.
I will be more careful in the future.:thumbup:
Rich

64nailhead 04-29-2013 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 496CHEVY3100 (Post 1670793)
Yes ,If both intake and exaust are closed.and lifters are pumped up,,, if not adjust the rocker down until it bottoms out the lifter then back it up 3/4 round.

No disrespect meant, but are you kidding?

spinn 04-29-2013 11:16 PM

Yeah if you bottom them out with just a turn back, how will they pump oil up to fill. That plunger acts as a suction pump to pull oil into the lifter.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:33 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.