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-   Suspension - Brakes - Steering (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/suspension-brakes-steering/)
-   -   front axle angle (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/front-axle-angle-223574.html)

wayneooo 08-31-2012 08:04 PM

front axle angle
 
1 Attachment(s)
any guys with t bucket roadsters with spoke wheels up front what is the tilt back angle you have your axle set at..someone told me 7% cant be right my car steers like crap

RWENUTS 08-31-2012 08:48 PM

I have mine at 7 degrees. Steering like crap could be because you've got steering cross your link in front of the axle screwing up the ackerman angle. Or you've got bump steer due to your draglink from your steering box not parrallel to your hair pins or bones.
I also see you have rear hairpins used on the front. I've heard they don't work well on the front and cause bump steer too.

timothale 08-31-2012 09:23 PM

T plans
 
There is a wiki on T bucket frame plans, looking at this picture there is enough room to put your tie rod back behind the axle where it should be, You will have to build a new spring perch mount on top of your spring, the reverse of what you have now. In one of Boyd's books they show how to reduce bump steer when the gear box is back from the hair pin rear mount...your steering arm on the spindle would need to be dropped so you can draw a straight line , drag link line up with pivot points. 40 years ago some of the dragsters used a two piece drag link, a intermediate arm swing above the rear hair pin mounting location one link from the steering gear to the pivot arm and the second link parallel to your hairpins, the same length as the hairpins to the steering arm on the spindle.... the ends of the frame rails need to have a cap welded over the open end of the tubes for greater strength,

RWENUTS 08-31-2012 09:43 PM

Another sorta related thought.
When you installed your spring did you stretch out the eyes (put it in tension) or just install it loose. They're supposed to be installed in tension, not loose.

timothale 08-31-2012 09:57 PM

long shackels
 
In the 50's My brother had long shackles on his 40 Ford coupe, the cheap way to lower it, He had to add a panhard bar to get the front end sway to stop . As Rwenuts noted, The shakles should be about a 45* angle in the completed car. engine installed, radiator installed etc.

BOBCRMAN@aol.com 09-01-2012 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timothale (Post 1587461)
In the 50's My brother had long shackles on his 40 Ford coupe, the cheap way to lower it, He had to add a panhard bar to get the front end sway to stop . As Rwenuts noted, The shakles should be about a 45* angle in the completed car. engine installed, radiator installed etc.

Boy, can I relate to that. Back in the sixties with a no budget 47 Ford. Hang on,, she's gunna swap lanes again!!

timothale 09-01-2012 07:21 AM

and bald tires
 
We built a 31 chrysler roadster with a 49 olds, hydro and olds rear end. Fastest thing in the vallley. A buddy found an almost new wrecked 55 olds that he swapped into his 46 merc, He gave us a ride and asked if we thought the merc was as fast as the roadster. blasted up to 110 on a back road, and as he slowed down to make a U turn a Bald front tire blew out., he had burned all the ruubber off all 4 tires, Our guardian angel was looking out for us. "Don't drive faster than your Guardian angel can fly ! "

delawarebill 09-01-2012 07:27 AM

angle of a dangle
 
yet 7 is correct.. my last 2 buckets were done that way and had not problems.. going down the road u can steer it with a finger. ck everything else.. don't forget 1/4" toe in too..

timothale 09-01-2012 07:32 AM

front suspension.
 
I was given an unfinished T bucket project with a tube front axle and Harley spokes like yours, Chassis needs radiator mount brackets, Trans cooler mounted then Paint and final assembley I wonder how it will handle ? ? There are things not easy to fix. Theoretically center lines are supposed to line up and some have off sets. Line thru king pin, line thru tire center, thru tire contact point on road . Line on road parallel to direction of travel thru contact point. Using different size tires and wheel offsets that the suspension was not designed for can cause problems.

2old2fast 09-01-2012 07:35 AM

First "steers like crap" isn't very descriptive.
Second , Pretty hard to tell what's going on from a pic. of the beginnings of a car.
5-9* degrees neg caster is usable but, it depends on the setup of the rest of the car.
dave

timothale 09-01-2012 07:40 AM

clarification
 
In my post about dragster linkage , The swing pivot location is above the REAR mount of the FRONT hairpin ..The swing pivot simulates normal steering gear location on a T bucket .

68NovaSS 09-01-2012 04:52 PM

I'm at 7 degrees on my Bucket and it's working great. I also have my toe-in at .5".

Where you mount your tie rod isn't the cause of your problems if all is setup correctly, just a matter of choice, mine is in front on a Total Performance kit, the only issue is bending it if you bump into things. :drunk:

wayneooo 09-01-2012 06:31 PM

thanks for the answers guys ill go over it till i like the way it rides any way i thought the tires were supposed to lean more like when u ride a bike not like a passenger car tire and im not sure what i have the toe in set at i just sorta eyeballed them making them in a straight line

timothale 09-02-2012 07:03 AM

68novass
 
Mounting the tie rod in the front on spindles designed for rear mounting is a problem,when making turns, the Ackerman is backwards. My brother used to race gocarts and I could feel the cart slow down in corners when the geometry was wrong. With backwards ackerman, in a turn the wheels are fighting each other, Scrubbing the tires, not perpendicular to the center point of the turn radius. If you hit a bump in a turn the tire that has the most traction takes over and the front end will dart to one side. Mustang II and other most other front steer suspensions have Pivot points, geometry design locations to produce akerman geometry. The exception was 80's Ford trucks with front steer. ackerman was only close.
(BS auto engineering, 15 years as an Auto engineer, 5 years Teaching Auto college courses).

timothale 09-02-2012 07:22 AM

Wayneooo
 
You can improve the handling with the front mounted tie rod by heating and bending or cutting and re-welding the steering arms to move the pivot -attachment of the tie rod ends as close as possible to your wheel spokes. Ackerman needs to have the wheels pointed straight ahead, and a line drawn thru centerline of the king pin, the tie rod end pivot and intersecting the center point of the rear axle., draw a V, the rear axle center is the point of the v and the tie rod and king pins are on the lines, When you get into racing with IRS and IFS things start to change, A good friend of mine, Bruce Cambern, Retired head of Ford Racing, Had all 4 wheels on his 427 Cobra pointing different directions when he set a road course record at MIS, and won 3 firsts and one second, overall first place at the 2009 optima, good Utubes, the incar shots will make you dizzy on a big screen.


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