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Old 05-23-2011, 04:36 PM
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Front axle shackle mounting

Can the front spring shackle be mounted to the axle (represented by the blue pipe) with the mounting studs and shackles (arrows) in either of the positions shown in these two photos?




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Old 05-23-2011, 05:03 PM
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Cboy I don't think the shackle will work right straight up and down like that.. Here's a picture to give you a better idea of what I'm trying to say..
When you pull up the page,Click on it to make it bigger..

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Spring...ign=GoogleBase


I'm thinking the bottom one would work,But I think the shackle's would have to turn out some..
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Old 05-23-2011, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEW INTERIORS
Cboy I don't think the shackle will work right straight up and down like that..
I should have noted that these mock ups were in the "unsprung" position without any weight on the suspension. When under weight, the shackles will no longer be vertical but rather at about a 45 degree angle (hopefully).

My fear about using the second attachment method, as you suggested, would be that once weight is on the car the result will look something like the photo below and the spring eye will come in contact with the mounting bracket and mounting stud:



If I mount the stud pointing inward the result under full weight would hopefully look something like this...and there would be no interference of spring movement.



Yes, I know how the spring is traditionally mounted as shown in the speedway photo. Unfortunately the suspension is not conducive to "traditional".

The REAL question is...will the shackles work at all with either of the non-traditional mounts shown in the photos.
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Old 05-23-2011, 06:44 PM
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I agree with what your saying...

That's why I said this..

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEW INTERIORS
I'm thinking the bottom one would work,But I think the shackle's would have to turn out some..
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Old 05-23-2011, 07:01 PM
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Okay---I'm not the brightest bulb in the group, but wouldn't shackles
on BOTH ends of the spring make for an axle that would move side to side at any whim???

I would think-----one shackle and one eye-----------like on my trailer or the rear springs in my pick-ups.

Seems (not sure) that most of the lil rods I have seen only have one shackle on the front.
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Old 05-23-2011, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan59EC
Seems (not sure) that most of the lil rods I have seen only have one shackle on the front.

Maybe you could post up a rod or two with a single shackle front spring mounting. I'm not sure what that looks like. Maybe we are just using different terms to describe the same thing.

Here is Speedway's spring mounting that Randy linked in his first post. It is a very traditional straight axle spring with shackles at both ends. At least that is the way I would describe it.



As the photo shows, in the traditional mounting position the shackles hang below the mounting brackets. What I am trying to determine is whether or not the spring will work with the shackles pointing upwards from the mounting bracket instead of downward.
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Old 05-24-2011, 06:03 AM
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I think thats the only way it will work as in the speedway pic.
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Old 05-24-2011, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1932bantam
I think thats the only way it will work as in the speedway pic.
I'm curious as to why not. The physics/geometry would appear to me to be quite similar...but then I barely squeaked through High School math.

The point may be a bit mute since I have figured out a way to do the mounting in the traditional fashion. The drawback is that a much bigger, taller and uglier mounting bracket would be necessary to do it that way. If I could do it as shown in the lower photo of my post #3, it would create a much cleaner look.
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Old 05-24-2011, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan59EC
Okay---I'm not the brightest bulb in the group, but wouldn't shackles
on BOTH ends of the spring make for an axle that would move side to side at any whim???

I would think-----one shackle and one eye-----------like on my trailer or the rear springs in my pick-ups.

Seems (not sure) that most of the lil rods I have seen only have one shackle on the front.
Most rods with the early Ford style suspension have shackles on both ends of the front spring.

Yes, the front end assembly can and does move from side to side.

The sideways movement can be greatly reduced with the addition of a panhard bar attached to the frame on one side and to the axle on the other (usually close to the attachment point of the radius rod).

A rigid spring perch used on one side where the spring attaches can also be used instead of the panhard bar to greatly reduce any side to side movement.
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Old 05-24-2011, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cboy
The point may be a bit mute since I have figured out a way to do the mounting in the traditional fashion. The drawback is that a much bigger, taller and uglier mounting bracket would be necessary to do it that way. If I could do it as shown in the lower photo of my post #3, it would create a much cleaner look.


The spring can be mounted behind the axle.. Not sure if that is OK and what your trying to do.. But if you can.. Look at the ones that mount behind the axle.. You can get it a little lower..
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Old 05-24-2011, 07:50 AM
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yes it does look like it could work, I've looked at your work and I think you can build what ever you think will work. excellent stuff!!!!!!!
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Old 05-24-2011, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cboy
My fear about using the second attachment method, as you suggested, would be that once weight is on the car the result will look something like the photo below and the spring eye will come in contact with the mounting bracket and mounting stud:

Your assumption is correct. This mounting method in the above photo will not work without bottoming out and severely limiting the travel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cboy
If I mount the stud pointing inward the result under full weight would hopefully look something like this...and there would be no interference of spring movement.

This method in this photo MAY work OK. It appears that as the spring compresses the shackles will bow out. Some limitation as to spring travel may still occur.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cboy
The REAL question is...will the shackles work at all with either of the non-traditional mounts shown in the photos.
See my comments above.
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Old 05-24-2011, 07:54 AM
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Just keep in mind, That spring doesn't have any weight on it.... The spring will be a little flatter..A little bump, And you may hit your mounting brackets on the axle..
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Old 05-24-2011, 07:59 AM
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cboy - Don't see why it woud not work but I do see this - In the bottom photo the mountings are more inward. This will be the fulcrum point for each axle end so will the axle be strong enough since you never said what you would be using for an axle.
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Old 05-24-2011, 09:02 AM
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Could a couple of you guys double check my assumptions here?

Based on the illustration in my prior post my analysis is:

In photo "A" below, the shackle position is 90 degrees and if this were under full weight, the shackle position would have zero effect on spring rate or ride stiffness.



In photo "B" below, the shackle position would soften the spring rate and soften the ride.



In photo "C" below, the shackle position would stiffen the spring rate and stiffen the ride.



Am I on the right track here?

(Pardon the shoes BTW.)
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