Front Coil Over Shocks on a Straight Axel! - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Suspension - Brakes - Steering
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2013, 08:16 PM
Registered User
 

Last journal entry: Coil Over Shocks on a Model A Ford
Last photo:
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Upstate, New York
Posts: 21
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Front Coil Over Shocks on a Straight Axel!

It's not a topic with a lot of answers on this site, but I appreciate those who did give me feed back. I finished removing the single leaf and upgraded my Model A with front coil overs. I have added many details of the project to my photo journal and would be happy to expand the discussion if there are any specific questions.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	2013-01-26_19-22-51_756.jpg
Views:	341
Size:	1.57 MB
ID:	71043   Click image for larger version

Name:	2013-01-12_11-47-16_631.jpg
Views:	242
Size:	1.37 MB
ID:	71044   Click image for larger version

Name:	2012-12-16_21-11-55_203.jpg
Views:	130
Size:	1.10 MB
ID:	71045   Click image for larger version

Name:	2012-11-16_20-25-48_121.jpg
Views:	128
Size:	993.1 KB
ID:	71046   Click image for larger version

Name:	2012-12-17_19-47-30_80.jpg
Views:	131
Size:	1.19 MB
ID:	71047  


    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2013, 10:18 PM
RWENUTS's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Nanaimo, BC, Canada
Age: 63
Posts: 2,056
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 62
Thanked 220 Times in 208 Posts
I can't tell in your photos, how did you mount a panhard bar?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 02-04-2013, 08:37 AM
jaw22w's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Indiana
Age: 64
Posts: 161
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 12
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
I have also eliminated the buggy spring on my '27 T. It makes the old roadster handle pretty well with 4 corner coil overs with 4 bar suspension front and rear. I think I see a panhard bar on your front end? What rate springs did you use? I used 225# springs. It may be just a little stiff, but handles well. My car weighs 1050# on the front What does yours weigh on the front? The front suspension was modeled after a pavement sprint car.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1166 (3).JPG
Views:	150
Size:	1.77 MB
ID:	71053   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1143 (2).JPG
Views:	171
Size:	340.7 KB
ID:	71054  

Last edited by jaw22w; 02-04-2013 at 08:56 AM. Reason: another picture
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 02-04-2013, 03:11 PM
Registered User
 

Last journal entry: Coil Over Shocks on a Model A Ford
Last photo:
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Upstate, New York
Posts: 21
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Front Coil Over Shocks on a Straight Axle!

The passenger axle mount shown painted red has a pan mount welded to it with two adjustment holes. The drop down mount on the driver's side is attached to the frame and the pan bar sits level right behind the front axle. This allows the bat wings to be free of any pressure and effectively attaches the pan bar to the front axle. Quarter inch angle iron with a quarter gusset and 3/16 tabs.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	2012-12-16_21-11-55_203.jpg
Views:	95
Size:	1.10 MB
ID:	71066   Click image for larger version

Name:	2012-12-17_19-46-16_359.jpg
Views:	107
Size:	944.3 KB
ID:	71067   Click image for larger version

Name:	2013-02-04_16-12-12_492.jpg
Views:	155
Size:	1.34 MB
ID:	71068   Click image for larger version

Name:	2013-02-04_16-08-55_823.jpg
Views:	104
Size:	1.18 MB
ID:	71069   Click image for larger version

Name:	2013-02-04_16-10-10_748.jpg
Views:	98
Size:	1.04 MB
ID:	71070  

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 02-04-2013, 03:24 PM
Registered User
 

Last journal entry: Coil Over Shocks on a Model A Ford
Last photo:
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Upstate, New York
Posts: 21
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I am using a 175lb, 14" spring. My front weight was 1110 before this modification. Can't wait to feel what this suspension does. If the snow ever goes away! I like the looks of your front axle, nice engineering!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 02-04-2013, 04:40 PM
jaw22w's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Indiana
Age: 64
Posts: 161
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 12
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanks, but the engineering came from the sprint car. I just adapted it. Your car is only 60# heavier than mine on the front axle. Have you not tried it with the 175# springs yet? I am anxious to hear how it works on the street. I have been playing with the idea going lighter on my springs. I have 225# front and 150# rear. It is firm but not like a buckboard. Being from upstate NY, you are in the same boat as me as far as driving your hot rod until it warms up and the snow goes away
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 02-04-2013, 07:18 PM
Registered User
 

Last journal entry: Coil Over Shocks on a Model A Ford
Last photo:
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Upstate, New York
Posts: 21
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I am running #300 springs in the rear with a weight of 1680. They work great. The rear springs are shorter, 10" as compared to the 12" spring in the front (in the prior thread I stated 14" but that was wrong. 14" is the total length of the shock and spring). Just didn't have the room in the back for a longer shock (the back shocks sit 12" total) The longer the spring the less spring weight that is needed because more coils get involved. If I were using a 10" in the front I would move up to #185-200. You may have a stiffer spring than is needed at #225. I can't tell you how this rides yet......till I see some pavement Haha! (Upstate NY). Later, I'll put an update in my Journal on how the ride and handling goes. In the mean time....

Here is an online spring rate calculator you can play with. This should help. Spring Rate Calculator Ridetech News and Information
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 02-04-2013, 09:54 PM
aosborn's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: Suspension: designs, shapes, sizes Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lakewood, WA
Posts: 621
Wiki Edits: 7

Thanks: 0
Thanked 17 Times in 16 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe Block View Post
The passenger axle mount shown painted red has a pan mount welded to it with two adjustment holes. The drop down mount on the driver's side is attached to the frame and the pan bar sits level right behind the front axle. This allows the bat wings to be free of any pressure and effectively attaches the pan bar to the front axle. Quarter inch angle iron with a quarter gusset and 3/16 tabs.
It is difficult to tell from the photo, but it appeatrs that the frame mount is simply butt welded to the bottom of the rail. If it is, you might want to consider gussets that come up the inside of the frame rail for strength. There is quite a bit of side load on a Panhard bar.

Regards,

Andy
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 02-05-2013, 10:50 AM
jaw22w's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Indiana
Age: 64
Posts: 161
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 12
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
My understanding of coil springs is that (as an example) a 300# spring will compress 1" with 300# on it, 2" with 600# on it, 3" with 900# on it, etc. regardless of the length of the spring.
I see from the calculator that going to a longer spring requires a lighter weight spring. I don't understand.

Last edited by jaw22w; 02-05-2013 at 10:59 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 02-05-2013, 03:32 PM
Registered User
 

Last journal entry: Coil Over Shocks on a Model A Ford
Last photo:
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Upstate, New York
Posts: 21
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
jaw22w

The more coils involved in a longer spring and shock the more vertical movement with the same impact. 10" spring moves 1" but a 12" will move 1 1/8" You use lessor weight spring but the additional movement results in the same weight after you multiply. 1 *300 or 1.125 * 275 roughly the same. I think that's how it works!!!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 02-05-2013, 03:37 PM
Registered User
 

Last journal entry: Coil Over Shocks on a Model A Ford
Last photo:
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Upstate, New York
Posts: 21
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
It is a channel weld up one inch on both sides of the frame, BUT since the mount already has holes, and there is still a buggy spring pad on the cross frame, I could easily bolt a rigid diagonal brace from the middle of the pan mount up to the middle of the frame. Thanks for the feedback. Super Idea
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2013, 07:18 PM
aosborn's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: Suspension: designs, shapes, sizes Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lakewood, WA
Posts: 621
Wiki Edits: 7

Thanks: 0
Thanked 17 Times in 16 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe Block View Post
jaw22w

The more coils involved in a longer spring and shock the more vertical movement with the same impact. 10" spring moves 1" but a 12" will move 1 1/8" You use lessor weight spring but the additional movement results in the same weight after you multiply. 1 *300 or 1.125 * 275 roughly the same. I think that's how it works!!!!
That is not really how it works. I 300lb spring is a 300lb spring regardless if it is 2" or 12" long. One will just coil bind sooner than the other. 300lbs compress it one inch, 600lbs 2" etc, unless it is a progressive spring.

Regards,

Andy
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2013, 08:06 PM
jaw22w's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Indiana
Age: 64
Posts: 161
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 12
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
[QUOTE=aosborn;1643896]That is not really how it works. I 300lb spring is a 300lb spring regardless if it is 2" or 12" long. One will just coil bind sooner than the other. 300lbs compress it one inch, 600lbs 2" etc, unless it is a progressive spring.

That is what I thought also. So why does the calculator posted above say you need a different spring when you change the length of the spring? I have been thinking about this for a couple of days. It has been bothering me. I have used coilover springs and shocks on race cars for over 20 years and I just don't understand why that calculator shows that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2013, 10:36 PM
aosborn's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: Suspension: designs, shapes, sizes Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lakewood, WA
Posts: 621
Wiki Edits: 7

Thanks: 0
Thanked 17 Times in 16 Posts
[quote=jaw22w;1643911]
Quote:
Originally Posted by aosborn View Post
That is not really how it works. I 300lb spring is a 300lb spring regardless if it is 2" or 12" long. One will just coil bind sooner than the other. 300lbs compress it one inch, 600lbs 2" etc, unless it is a progressive spring.

That is what I thought also. So why does the calculator posted above say you need a different spring when you change the length of the spring? I have been thinking about this for a couple of days. It has been bothering me. I have used coilover springs and shocks on race cars for over 20 years and I just don't understand why that calculator shows that.
Are you referring to the pre-load setting they have shown? Since they are showing you three different spring choices you would need to preload each spring a different amount to support the car.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2013, 06:51 AM
jaw22w's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Indiana
Age: 64
Posts: 161
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 12
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
[quote=aosborn;1643941]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaw22w View Post

Are you referring to the pre-load setting they have shown? Since they are showing you three different spring choices you would need to preload each spring a different amount to support the car.
No, not referring to the preload. When I input the weights and angles for my car using a 6.3" travel shock and a 12" spring, performance mode recommends a 150# spring with .47 preload. Then when I input the same numbers but change to a 4.1" travel shock with a 10" spring, performance mode recommends a 200# spring with .52 preload. I don't understand why when changing spring lengths, the spring rate needs to change.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Suspension - Brakes - Steering posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
unisteer ford straight axel. feedback Jack Dore Suspension - Brakes - Steering 8 03-13-2013 11:00 AM
straight axel front end monte carlo gasser? crankshaft3rd Suspension - Brakes - Steering 4 09-09-2011 05:00 AM
Straight Axel in a 86 C4 Vette happydad Transmission - Rearend 1 10-13-2007 09:14 AM
power steering for straight axel f100 oldman64 Suspension - Brakes - Steering 3 08-29-2006 05:42 AM
straight axel front end madmel Suspension - Brakes - Steering 0 10-10-2001 11:23 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.