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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2002, 03:52 AM
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Hot Rods are Built, not Bought
 

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If you build rods for a living I could see why the kit is your choice. The labor hours to install would be less, but parts would be much higher.

If you are a RBBO and out of pocket cost is the bottom line decision, you would go with a donor front clip, not the kit. Sure the labor is going to be more, but that is what most RBBO’s have, more time than money.

There is no way a good quality, heavy duty kit form Mustang II is cheaper than a clip, unless you pick an odd-ball clip that you can’t get parts for, or pay an outrageous price for it. I am talking finished, ready to drive price here. The clip solves many other problems like motor mounts, power steering, sway bars, tie rods, etc.

I think the biggest thing clouding the issue here is Mustang II kits are “trendy”. The buzz talk that people throw around at cruise-ins and shows. “Yeah, its got a four bolt main small block, 700 R4 tranny, 9” rear and mustang II IFS“ Blah, Blah, Blah

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2002, 01:06 PM
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You live life well my freind. I have done many clips and never have had the motor mounts be in the correct spot for the application(not saying there is not a few out there) But come on if your good enough to cut your car in half and weld a clip on you should have enough knowledge to know how to build motor mounts correct? The labor hours have nothing to do with it,for one thing i get paid by the hour .More hours more pay!! Your comment about no way a stangII(and i dont call them that cause there are NO stangII parts on any of the 'KITS" i install)is cheaper than a clip is false. How much do you pay for a clip? Do you have to pay for the clip to be removed(or buy a whole car)Next comes sandblasting the clip(the kits are brand new)its got to be done if you want to find all the cracks and damage that a 25 year old front end has. Next those rebuild kits for a camaro clip are laughable as the ball joints and tie rods will be worn out in 40k .If you rebuild the clip with quality frontend parts(mooge or TRW)it cost a lot more than the 129 dollar kits.Next how much do you pay to rebuild a steering box(Bet you dont bother).On to wheel bearing ,inner and outter plus wheel seals.Now we need to buy new rotors(or do you just cut the used ones,unexceptable with a newly built car) The list goes on and on. RBBO is not and excuse for using JUNK parts and clipping your car/truck nowadays .Next time you out at a show or rod gathering look at the home built cars,i have seen very few that the owner had the knowledge to put a clip on correctly and most of them are on the borderline of being dangerous. I have actually seen BONDO used to cover up the mess they make.Most home builder do not have the knowledge to weld and properly plate a clip.(kits can be tacked and a pro could have it welded in a hour) I think you may have the word "trendy" mixed up with safety. Clips had there time in roddin(when they were cut off brand new cars) but thankfully they are gone. The sad thing about it is after you clip your car there is no going back if it drives crummy .Throw the frame away.A good portion of my bussiness comes from rodders that have driven a car that i have installed a Kit on and want me to cut that old camaro ,pacer,c-10,s-10,factorystangII off there car and install the KIT so they can enjoy driving there rod again not man handling it or buying tires every 15-25k. Just one other thing and i will get off my soap box,there are a couple of Kits i would never use one of them is the most advertized one of all.Just becareful with the Overweight guy,his stuff is the worst. I will now put my firsuit on
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2002, 05:33 PM
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Hot Rods are Built, not Bought
 

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Wow Phat, looks like I hit a nerve. You know we don't all have to agree on everything here. You without a doubt have a lot of experience, since it sounds like you build cars for a living.

Roy asked for opinions, and that is why I suggested the S-10 clip. As I previously stated, I have first hand experience where a wrenching buddy of mine installed an S-10 clip in a '49 Olds Woody Wagon. The end result worked out really well and he was able to rebuild the suspension using over the counter components, bought from our hometown auto parts store. Typical "build your own hot rod" mentality from a Rod Built by Owner kind of guy.

I don't build rods for a living, it is a hobby for me. As for myself, I take a lot of pride in my home built '31 Tudor. The Tudor sits on original frame rails which I boxed myself, built the rear four-bar suspension, made the motor and tranny mounts, etc. etc. Phat will be pleased to hear that I bought the front dropped I-beam axle, four bar and spring from TCI.

I am now building a '27 roadster pickup on deuce rails. It sits on repro deuce rails that I bobbed, pinched and z'd. Both of my cars are true home built rods, a mix of old and new.

Neither of my rods use a donor "clip" or Mustang II kits. Fenderless Hot Rods with buggy springs and dropped i-beams, old Henry Ford would love it!
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2002, 07:11 PM
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Phat . . . very well put. One thing though, I would like if you could share some of your experiences with the overweight guy with me and the group. I, myself have had good luck so far, but would like the inside scoop on any negatives.
Thanks . . . your info is appreciated.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2002, 08:31 PM
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Well I started this so its my turn. As far as I am cnncerned all of you are right in some way. If you have read my web site I talk about safety all the time. Some people just could not sub frame a car and should not try. I do because I can and if you read about me doing mine you will see I used good parts. I also overhauled the PS box and pump and everything else. The problem is I don't know to many guys that can overhaul a PS box.The point is if you can do it Then go ahead. But the car has to be safe. When we alined up the car it took no special setings so it was in correct.The motor mounts were used in the same spot.I also put my own headliner and covered my seats but not many rodders can do this. That is why the club says all or most of your car. We would not have many members if we only took rodders that could do all the car.Do not try to do anything to your car that would make it unsafe. There is no shame in getting someone to do it so your car will be safe. The truth is this club works look at the answers to this one question. Keep up the good work ROY
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 01-16-2002, 06:43 AM
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lakeroadster dont take my post the wrong way.If it hit a nerve i would just fly off to another post This stuff is fun for me.I just like to share my thoughts and the things i have seen.You sound like you have been around the block a few times and have seen some of the scary clip jobs i was talking about. sdar I dont like the guys way of doing bussiness(rude and no one can possably know as much as he does if you have a problem) and have had 3 of his crossmember fail in the past 1 1/2 years(bad welds ,not damage from the customer) He seems to think he is the only game in town. His geometry is something to be desired.Good example is the "new" split front axle.Ford has had problems with there twin I beam for years(to much camber gain with such a short arm)I dont like the fact cause he spends 20-40K a month in advertizing it the rod books to sell it to us as the best thing since sliced bread.Beleive me your better off with a beam axle,i have had one on the bump steer gauge and it is not worth the trouble to install.Thats just one example.We wont even get into the camber issue.Roy i agree you do do it all,some of us are not that talented Make interior panels and a headliner??? I cant make the darn bed.Give me a weldor or a paint gun and i am happy. I know i should not bash the manufacture here(i did not use his name) but i fell very strongly about his lack of caring for you and i.I used to use ONLY his stuff.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 01-16-2002, 08:05 AM
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Bruce you are right if you can do it ok if not don't try. don't forget if you have a steering go bad you could kill someone else. I paint my own car but I will be the first to tell you I would do your headliners and door panels and let you paint my car and would be better off. I did this car and all of this car because someone told me I could not do it. The time it took me to paint the car you could have painted a fleet. Point being paint will not get you killed if it could you would have painted my car. ROY
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 01-16-2002, 04:55 PM
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Thanks Phat, Roy, and everyone else. This is why I love this board of various ages, experiance and talents. The knowledge that we can get from each others experiances is priceless. If someone has had problems with a manufacturer / vendor I think that it is in the best interest of the group to tell it like it is. Buyer beware, but better yet a friendly warning is worth it's weight in gold!
By the way, I have noticed the increase in advertising.
Thanks again . . .
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