I have just about finished the T Bucket I have working on since January. The front end is your usual dropped axle with no shocks. Does anyone know if there is anything that can be done with the front end as far as an alignment.
Is there anything that an alignment shop would do or is mostly a do it your self proposition. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
One is make sure that axles are squared to the chassis. then check the castor, usually about 10 degrees of castor on one of those. Set the toe and you are good. Camber is welded in so nothing can be done with that unless you actually bend the axle. Most alignment shops do not work on street rods so it is a do it yourself deal.
The pict looks like friction shocks. You cab adjust the tension on the star springs, ... too late now with out damaging the chrome, but when you have a front tie rod you can heat the steering arms and bend them out as close to the tires as possible to get some ackerman angle. On a T bucket with a light front end and small front tires it won't fight you unless you are turning on bumpy roads with a wider front tire.
10 degrees caster is too much in my opinion, only about 3 would be where I would start. And it's amazing how few of those guys who do alignments at tire shops and the like have a clue. If the computer doesn't tell them what direction to turn the bolt, they have no idea how to do this....and this is not a joke, the computer literally tells you which way to turn the bolt!
I have no experience with a T bucket but I would think 3 or so degrees is it, with something like 5 being a max.
The guy who does it probably won't even know how to and you need to unbolt the radius rod and turn in the up joints and maybe screw out the bottom ones. Then bolt it back on and check caster, it will be a pain in the *** for them but that's how it's done.
The fact that the acerman angle is all wrong with the tie rod out in front like that could make a big difference in how much caster you put. Hopefully Randy will post as he has done a ton of these cars and will have some good advice.
8-10 is about right for a T , friction shocks look nice , don't do much IME , if you have a level pad to chek on , most can be done at home , these cars are very finicky when it comes to toe, as has been said , squaring axles/frame is critical , I'm a big proponent of proper ackerman , but I drive mine alot
dave
u will have an issue with the ackerman because of the front steering link.. but not really a big deal. like mentioned above use a tape measure to make sure axles are in alignment to ea other.. the toe in is 1/8" on buckets.. never have toe out. with front and rear wish bones it's gonna be a pain, but u got to do it or it'll crab on u..
Lots of caster, 5* or more but make sure you still leave plenty of clevis thread in the hair pin tubes - they can be a weak link. 1/16 to 1/8 inch of toe in. Make sure the drag link (steering box to steering arm) is close to parallel to the ground. Then of course, the rear end as well as that front axle are centered and square to the chassis. If it has the common T-bucket Watts linkage in the rear, make sure the center link is perpendicular.
The caster can be measured with a ten buck common angle gauge and the toe with a tape measure - and with that light car, 'close enough'.
X 2... For vehicles with rear suspension that moves up and down a long distance, such as stock vehicles, panhard bars are usually twice as long as Ireland's... Longer bars can take more up and down movement without jerking the vehicle side to side... Don't be confused by Ireland's single bar happening to be about the same length as each short bar of a Watt's link setup... Watt's Links were invented to avoid all side to side jerking at all... To keep the rear axle perfectly centered as suspension moves up and down...
I appreciate all of the help and advice. Not being a mechanic this has been quite a learning experience. Thank goodness my 2 best friends are very good at this.
The rearend is a Jaguar with the inboard rotors. Thanks again everyone.
Cleve
Not to hijack but a quick pertinent question.
The caster angle for the t-bucket iis the top of teh king pin supposed to be leaning forward or back. I am actually ready to put mine back on the road and wanted to check / set this
Leaning the kingpin back causes the turned wheel/tire to want to return toward the center forwards position (understeer) until it balances tie bar forces again in the center against the wheel/tire on the other side...
The vehicle tries to dive off to the left or the right... it is hard to hold straight forward...
The reason for 'toe in' is that once underway, wind, road, and drive forces push the front tires/wheels backwards slightly, toe in disappears, and the front wheels are actually then nearly or perfectly parallel... if no initial toe in, then this same effect would produce unstable toe out while driving...
31 model a 6" dropped axle 8* caster with toe in car had a serious shake at low speed wobble especially after hitting a bump. set toe to 1/16 toe out wobble gone till close to 70 mph and can feel a slight wobble starting. haven't gone any faster don't wish to feel wobble at that speed. am going to try 1/8 toe out. any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks
31 model a 6" dropped axle 8* caster with toe in car had a serious shake at low speed wobble especially after hitting a bump. set toe to 1/16 toe out wobble gone till close to 70 mph and can feel a slight wobble starting. haven't gone any faster don't wish to feel wobble at that speed. am going to try 1/8 toe out. any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks
First thing I would do is put the axle on jack stands and check for anything being loose such as tie rod ends and king pins and clevis joints and drag link ends, etc... push and pull all around on the tires and see if anything gives and is loose...
Friend of mine had a nearly new at the time '89 Firebird Formula with only 4,000 miles on it and he showed me how he could hit a little bump on the expressway at 45 MPH and the front wheels would go into a bad wobble and just keep wobbling until he slowed down and hit the brakes... Those had a strut setup... They went back to long & short A-arms again a couple - three years after that... A dealer adjustment and/or replacement fixed it under warranty...
I have 2 T's. Both are 4" dropped front axle. One likes 1/4" toe out. the other likes 1/8th " in. You just have to play with it to see what the car wants. Yes rule of thumb says 1/8" in, but these lightweight T's sometimes fall outside the box. I'll bet it took me at least 5 or 6 carefully indexed tries before I was satisfied. Just stick with it. The correct setting is in there some where. Both are set with 7 degrees of positive caster with a digital angle finder on top of the king pin. You have to be careful with this measurement. The angle finder has to be parallel with the centerline of the chassis to be accurate.
You'll never get ackerman right with that setup but it probably won't matter with skinny front tires and the heavy rear weight distribution of most T's.
I use 6 plumb bobs to align my T's. Get the car in the air with jack stands under the axles with the frame at the same angle as it sits on the ground. Then establish a center point at the frame at the front spring perch. Drop a bob to the floor from this center point. Go to the rear end. Find the center of the rearend by dropping a bob from each wheel mounting surface. Drop a bob at the center of the rear end. Snap a line on the floor between the front and rear center points.
Then I remove the spindles and kingpins. I made a wooden plug same size as the king pin with a hole drilled through the center for the string to center the plumb bobs in the king pin bore. Now you have six bobs hanging. Center front and rear axles to this centerline. Then measure from the rear end centerpoint diagonally to the left and right front bobs. Adjust until measurements are the same. This squares the front axle to the centerline. Now just use the same procedure to square the rear end to the centerline. It may be a juggling act achieving center and square, but at this point it should be all centered and squared. I like to take it one step farther. Check front to rear on both sides. Check diagonals LR to RF and RR to LF. Sometimes I find small errors with this second check. Then I just keep juggling and adjusting until I get all these dimensions to within 1/16".
I know this is a lot of work, but it's not like you have to do it very often and the results are a very nice driving car.
Back when most cars had frames & straightening them was cost effective, we used tram gauges to align the frames , basically a fancy way of doing what Jaw22w is doing w/the plumb bobs....very accurate way to align frame & suspension ..... Thanks Jaw , good info.....I'd add that being on a level surface is best..
dave
One thing not discussed yet is where all the center lines intersect, Wheel centerline , offset, kingpin angle centerline, distance from tire contact patch, etc. Chevy king pin angle vs Ford king pin angle. tie rod in front, or back, ackerman angle.
Like New interiors said you have to find out what works for your setup..
One thing not discussed yet is where all the center lines intersect, Wheel centerline , offset, kingpin angle centerline, distance from tire contact patch, etc. Chevy king pin angle vs Ford king pin angle. tie rod in front, or back, ackerman angle.
Like New interiors said you have to find out what works for your setup..
A good friend is the retired head of Ford Racing, He used to do the alignment of his 427 cobra the same way, and didn't trust the kids in an alignment shop to get close the aluminum body. Then he would use a hand held temperature reader to spot check temps all around the track , inside, outside and center of the tread. on each tire
Then if the outside of the front tire was getting too hot after coming out of turn nine play with alignment and see what it did to lap times. https://video.search.yahoo.com/sear...=d93bf20dba376f3ba6fdf522fe5436dc&action=view
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