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-   -   front wheel v8 question? (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/front-wheel-v8-question-229072.html)

HemmiGremmie 02-01-2013 07:23 PM

front wheel v8 question?
 
Hey all.
I may be gettin a 76 eldo convertible with a massive 500ci engine. I was amped up but then i realized its a front wheel drive.
My plan was to get a seperate engine and build a tourque monster to drop in it. Anyone ever saw or built a hi horse v8 with a front wheel drive car? Is it possible to build it up eere it will hold up or is it to much to try?
Be kinda weird but wild! RR

LATECH 02-01-2013 07:43 PM

look at the mounts. I think it is a plain ol 500 (yeah plain LOL) the transaxle is funky. It bolts like a regualer trans and has a revrse shaft to the front and couples to a big pumpkin that runs the CV axles.
It should fit right in a rear wheel application.
I would check the block for mount bosses and compare to another 500 if you can . I am thinking they are all the same.

Dave57210 02-02-2013 12:08 AM

If I understand your question, you want to build up a torque monster engine to put into the Eldo. Is that right?

May I ask why you want to put in a different engine, when you already have an engine in there that can pull a freight train up a steep grade

However, if you want to pursue that course of action, can I have your 500?

I love those engines! Lighter than a BBC, more torque in stock form than dam near anything else, and by simply changing intake manifold and exhaust (Have you ever seen such an intake design?) you can wake it up even more!

Just don't try to rev it - Cad motors have a valve train that is reputed to give grief starting at about 4500 rpm.

painted jester 02-02-2013 01:11 AM

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Thought you might be interested about another front wheel drive big block:thumbup:

I think the Cady trans-axle and Torinado trans-axle are the same? Cant remember this many years later? I owned a 67 Torinado And and ran it at Detroit dragway the traction was unbelievable!

Jester:mwink:

Developed with help from General Motors engineer John Beltz, the Hurst Hairy Olds was built to be a showcase for the then-new chain-driven automatic trans axle of the 1966 Oldsmobile Toronado as well as a rival to the Hurst Hemi Under Glass. There were doubts in the automotive press as to the strength of such a system; the Hairy Olds was designed to dispel these doubts.


The Terrifying Toronado:
Hurst installed not one but two 425 in³ (7 L) Oldsmobile engines and Toronado transaxles both front and rear; a pair of drag parachutes were mounted in the stock taillight positions and four-wheel disc brakes were fitted as well. Two engines meant two of virtually everything in the cockpit related to the operation of the car, including two cable-operated shifters, two tachometers, two sets of oil pressure and temperature gauges and even two accelerator pedals. Additional power was provided via a Cragar Equipment-modified 6-71 GMC supercharger atop each engine, each burning a blend of nitromethane and alcohol. Weight was reduced through the use of aluminum body components and Plexiglas windows. The result was a 2400-horsepower, four-wheel-drive exhibition drag racer which smoked its front and rear tires down the length of the race track with times in the eleven-second range.

The tremendous amount of power at the front wheels caused massive torque steer, resulting in difficulty in keeping the car in a straight line.


A front wheel drive Pic
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/atta...1&d=1359792448
The 4 wheel drive Terrifying Toronado had a cousin from the other side of the country in the Hurst Hairy Olds. Built in a similar fashion for the 1966 season, the car (a front wheel drive Olds 442) reportedly was built to showcase the bulletproof qualities of the then-new chain-driven automatic transaxle of the '66 Toronado, which had its skeptics in the automotive press. After all, if it could harness the power of a supercharged engine, it should do well in stock configuration, right? (Truth be told, although the front drivetrain was essentially stock, the right-hand axleshafts were swapped for left-hand units because they were stronger, and the torque converters were beefed up, but those are minor points.

HemmiGremmie 02-02-2013 12:39 PM

Thanks for the info guys.
im thinkin a big engine in a fwd car would be kool. Just didnt know if the front end and axles could hold it together.
Im wanting to use the caddy 500ci engine. Just thinkin if i get a spare and build it slowly on the stand then i can still drive the car till the motors done.
Will be interesting if it works out. RR

joe_padavano 02-02-2013 12:41 PM

The Eldo and the Toronado (and the GMC motorhomes) all use the TH425 trans. This is a TH400 bent in half and all the internal parts are common with a TH400, so strength is not an issue. The TH425 has the torque converter and pump behind the engine and the rest of the trans alongside the engine on the driver's side. There's a multi-row roller chain that connects the two at the very back of the trans. All Olds and Caddy motors bolt to this trans, but you need the proper oil pan to clear the RH halfshaft. Yes, all Pontiac and Buick motors bolt up as well, but there are no factory oil pans that have the proper shape. Yes, the Buford V6 was used in longitudinal FWD applications in the 1980s Riviera and Toro, but that was the smaller TH325 trans.

The TH425 differential bolts to the driver's side of the block. There's a shaft the runs under the oil pan to the passenger side with a flange for the RH halfshaft and CV joint. The LH halfshaft and CV joint bolts directly to the differential flange. Stock final drive ratio is 3.07:1 and there is no factory posi unit. The GMC motorhome community has developed both posi and steeper gear sets, but these parts are priced like they are made from solid gold.

Of course the driver's side exhaust manifold is unique to the FWD application since it needs to route up and over the transaxle. There are no Caddy headers available for this configuration. There are Olds headers, again from the GMC motorhome community, and again, they are extremely expensive (apparently all those retirees are pretty well heeled).

Crosley 02-02-2013 01:11 PM

I built a 1970 Chevelle with a T-425 trans axle drive train with a 6-71 blown small block chevy adapted to the T-425. Remote oil filter and custom pan for the chevy engine was required.

I always ''rolled'' on the throttle with the FWD setup, not hammer it hard and shift the trans at WOT.

Although... the first time I shifted 1 - 2 under WOT , the drive chain broke apart, ripped holes in the chain cover.

The T-425 was modified for firm shifts and dual feed direct clutch just like it's brother the T-400

ogre 02-03-2013 05:34 PM

interesting. had to google the th425

http://www.2bluesc.com/pictures/Othe...aler/th425.jpg

http://www.kitcarmagazine.com/Classi...-Images/99.jpg

gtw5 02-20-2013 10:45 PM

I have a GMC motorhome and actually headers and gear sets are really not that expensive. Check out Applied GMC in Fremont , CA. Jim Kanamato, the owner supplies lots of parts for the Toronado front clip that we use. In fact he has a twin turbo set up on his own 455 powered coach.

Thanks

327NUT 02-21-2013 12:39 AM

1 Attachment(s)
You can also "occasionaly" find the rear deep sump Eldorado pan and pick up on ebay or at Cadillac Forum, these pieces are a little pricey though....usually around $175 - $200. Then you can turn that 500 into a real torque monster....like mine.

delawarebill 02-21-2013 07:23 AM

fwd
 
last yr in ocean city md.. i parked next to a early 50's pick up.. look very stock.. could figure out why he was carrying an engine in the bed of truck... till he opened the hood.. he took the fwd out and put in back of his truck.. that was fantastic.

st3gamefarm 03-01-2013 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogre (Post 1642268)

That would be a nifty getup for a Corvair. :D

bigdog7373 03-01-2013 05:55 PM

It would be pretty cool i guess. It will suck in the rain and you can't launch at all. Plus it will not handle at all. If you don't mind any of that then go ahead and do it.

joe_padavano 03-02-2013 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdog7373 (Post 1652296)
It would be pretty cool i guess. It will suck in the rain and you can't launch at all. Plus it will not handle at all. If you don't mind any of that then go ahead and do it.

Right, because having the engine weight directly over the drive wheels is the WORST thing you can do for traction... :rolleyes:

bigdog7373 03-02-2013 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe_padavano (Post 1652715)
Right, because having the engine weight directly over the drive wheels is the WORST thing you can do for traction... :rolleyes:

Yes cause when you accelerate all the weight shifts forward. Plus front wheel drive is very popular in every type of racing...


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