The fuel of the future.... and the winner is? - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > General Discussion> Hotrodders' Lounge
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2004, 04:14 PM
Croz's Avatar
Hotrodders.com moderator
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 464
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
The fuel of the future.... and the winner is?

I have been debating with my brothers and some family friends lately about the next step in fuels. Granted it isn't anything that is probably going to be forced on us in the next 5 or 10 years (one can hope i guess), but what are your takes on the issue? I have read alot about Ethanol as a fuel lately and it doens't seem like it would be that big of a change as far as the masses are concerned, but all the big guns seem to be infatuated with Hydrogen. Now, I personally, being a paranoid weirdo, think that it is all a conspiracy that the car companies are in with the oil companies (and maybe the gov't) that they will continue to consume oil until it is absolutely gone. I believe they are researching Hydrogen because they know it will never be implemented but they want the people to think they are trying so we don't cry and protest. This also gets the enviromentalists off thier backs because it is so clean. Well, Ethanol is cleaner than Gasoline. Ethanol can be produced. You don't have to buy a new engine to use Ethanol, although the conversion for some newer cars could be difficult, considering the plastics and alloys used might not be Ethanol friendly. On older cars however, from what I have read, I could pull off the conversion in a little over a couple hours. Granted I have not tried it, but from what I have read it sounds simple enough. On the other hand, Hydrogen would require new engines. Also, the git and go would be significantly changed with hydrogen, where as ethanol probably wouldn't change much at all. Anyway, I thought I would see what you all think, since the majority of you have the same automorive priorities as I do.

Thoughts?

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2004, 04:19 PM
kitkar's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Port Rowan, ON, Canada
Age: 59
Posts: 122
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I concur.

kitkar
__________________
kitkar
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2004, 04:26 PM
Magnus_Jager's Avatar
Tow Chainer
 
Last wiki edit: Rebuilding an early Hemi engine
Last journal entry: cruise pics
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Western NYS
Age: 44
Posts: 245
Wiki Edits: 2

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
When I was a kid (late 70's) you could buy gasohol, but it cost more than gas and had a bit of a smear campaign against it. Claims it would blow your engine etc.

You won't see it until the oil companies own the patent.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2004, 04:35 PM
mikeweyman's Avatar
Member
 

Last journal entry: 2 years later
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: nova scotia canada
Posts: 581
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I think the hybrids are the next to take center stage.honda has an electric car that has an onboard gas engine to run the charger,no long plug ins.also the gas motor cuts in when you need more power for passing.
the big search for alternative fuels is just to passify the treehuggers. if they were serious,they would have it now instead of having to kiss up to the arabs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2004, 04:36 PM
Member
 

Last journal entry: JB's 37 Pickup
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Smoky Mountains
Age: 76
Posts: 2,358
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Croz, where have you been so long? My take on alternative fuel. First, ethanol. would work, but it is in direct competition for our national food supply and that makes me vote a big NO, NOT UNDER CIRCUMSTANCES!!! The minerals and nutrients of our farming soils are depleting rapidly and most farming operations are now highly dependent upon fertilizers and guess what, fossil fuels is the biggest source of the fertilizer ingredients. So what have we gained? But we would be big losers, even in the short turn if we can no longer produce enough food to feed our growing masses. Now to Hydrogen. This is the typical tree hugger dream fuel, ie clean burning. But according to every thing I have read, it takes about 6 times the consumption of petroleum products to produce the hydrogen , so converting to hydrogen power for clean air will deplete the known petroleum reserves 6 times faster than the present rate. Where is the advantage?

Trees
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2004, 04:40 PM
k2mooch's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Fort Mill, SC
Age: 35
Posts: 174
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I like Dr. Emmit Brown's 'Mr. Fusion'. Oh wait, that's fiction.




MoocH
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2004, 04:41 PM
FASTCHEVY's Avatar
RatRod B4 RatRods were Cool
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Dallas Texas
Age: 32
Posts: 800
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Methane, Biodiesel or Hydrogen. all of these fuels can be used
in a piston engine.
Ethanol can be used but it pollutes the water.

Hydrogen CAN be used in gas engine with a few mods, mostly
with fuel containment.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2004, 05:05 PM
Croz's Avatar
Hotrodders.com moderator
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 464
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
There is no evidence that I have seen that says ethanol pollutes any water.... explain

Oh, and trees, I have been busy adapting to the college life. First semester nearly killed me.... I changed my major (I am not Mechanical Engineering) and I moved into the fraternity house (I joined a fraternity too) and have been much happier, IE I have been reading here more. College has also left me with no garage to do any major work to my car.... Only the bare necessities until I go home for a weekend or the summer.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2004, 05:26 PM
willys36@aol.com's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: How to rebuild a Rochester Quadrajet 4MV carbureto...
Last journal entry: How to change auto shift timing on 200R4
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Bakersfield
Posts: 8,388
Wiki Edits: 21

Thanks: 1
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Ethanol is a viable alternative fuel. And car companies and oil companies are NOT conspiring to eliminate it as an option. The fact is that it will cost around $2.00 /gallon more than gasoline to produce in quantity so it will require government subsidies (read 'More Socialism') and/or a willing consumer to convert. It is not all sweetness and truth either, emissions include, among several nasty others, formaldehyde which is a carcinogenic. When consumer demand is there for an alternative, oil will begin to disappear as the primary fuel and something else will take its place. Then, no matter how much the evil oil companies try, they will go away (Texaco, Gulf, Arco, Mobil, Union Oil, etc., etc.), unless of course they adapt to the changing times and you will have then to blame for everything from global warming to the democrats losing control of the government.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2004, 05:32 PM
Croz's Avatar
Hotrodders.com moderator
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 464
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
I thought that formaldehyde was produced because of the solutions used to denature the alcohol not the alcohol itself and if it was denatured with something else it would not produce it. I could be misunderstanding what i have read however.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2004, 06:38 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Pingree ND
Age: 31
Posts: 40
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hey guys I am kinda lurker here mainly, but I thought I would comment on this topic.

First on ethanol, there are already ethanol plants her in North Dakota, it was started by some guys with money to give farmers more business here. Willys36, I dont know where you heard it costs $2.00 more per gallon to produce ethanol, but I think you may have been mistaken. As it is now, ethanol fuel you get at a pump is a 1:10 ratio. Up here ethanol is the same price as regular fuel and often times has a higher octane rating than regular gas. I know some salt flats racers run straight ethanol.

I've ran ethanol in carbuerated and EFI vehicles with no problems and cant tell any difference.

As far as the future goes, as we inch towards a lower oil supply, we will see a rise in hybrids, and the move to using more ethanol fuel as a national standard.

Once the oil companies have sucked every last oil drop out of the world, then they will introduce the revolutionary "affordable" hydrogen systems and syn diesel.

Which will be BS. Converting your vehicle to hydrogen is simple and cheap already. I watched this show on the history channel, and there is a alternative fuels run they have cross country, one guy was running a new dodge running on straight biodiesel which is made from soy. (Another product they are starting to push up here) and another guy had a nissan pickup that he converted to hydrogen, he said he had to only add two parts to the engine.

Personally I wish they would push for more hydrogen stations so all the yuppies in the world who dont care about what they drive, can run on hydrogen and save the gas for hot rodders.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2004, 07:53 PM
Checy_Guy's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 108
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
A big problem with using hydrogen is producing it takes allot of energy and it pollutes when making the hydrogen so in fact it might cause allot more pollution than its preventing.
__________________
Chevy-Rules
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 02-24-2004, 07:30 AM
willys36@aol.com's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: How to rebuild a Rochester Quadrajet 4MV carbureto...
Last journal entry: How to change auto shift timing on 200R4
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Bakersfield
Posts: 8,388
Wiki Edits: 21

Thanks: 1
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Happy thing is, we oil men already control the entire world (We have Osama Bin Laden captive in Houston and will announce his capture in late September in Florida to solidify the re-election of George Bush) and you poor peasants must ALWAYS bow to us! Isn't life great! And what makes you think we will let you have hydrogen when we finally control all the oil thanks to our friend George Bush and his imperialism to take over the whole world?

Incidentally, I'll ask the questions again 'cause no one has given me an answer yet. Where do you suppose we will get the energy to make all this hydrogen fuel? And since alcohol is a proven alternative to gasoline, why doesn't someone just start producing and marketing it without asking for government subsidies? And why does gasohol (made for pollution control reasons, not economic reasons) cost more than regular old gasoline? Silly me asking all those questions!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 02-24-2004, 08:28 AM
k2mooch's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Fort Mill, SC
Age: 35
Posts: 174
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hey Willys, if I were a government official who had a good buddy in the oil industry with deep pockets, I'd be making sure that more gas guzzlers were on the road to keep him in business too

But if we do go to an alternative fuel, how do you make the transition without throwing off the balance of our economy which is 'driven' by gasoline at the same time? Better start blowing up some gas stations to give 'em a good reason to start hating money. LoL.



MoocH
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 02-24-2004, 10:35 AM
coldknock's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Social Circle, Ga.
Age: 43
Posts: 1,528
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
The two biggest reasons that ethanol and methanol cost more at the pump is....

1. The source has to be paid. It isn't just there like crude oil. Farmers don't work for free.

2. Mass production isn't in place. The more you make, the cheaper it is for consumers.

As for the food supply, tell the thousands of farmers that have gone out of business that they have a new market for their crops and get them back in business. Also, stop exporting food and use the excess we have for fuel production. Stop importing more people, it's only more mouths to feed. We make enough babies on our own already.

Stop buying foreign oil and use our own reserves for a few months and see how the arabs prices go down.

It would be against the best interests of any financial institution large enough to bankroll a company that threatened the bread and butter of said financial institution. The bread and butter being oil companies.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Hotrodders' Lounge posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.