Fuel injection options for a 383HT-low $? - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-13-2011, 11:31 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: maine
Posts: 83
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Fuel injection options for a 383HT-low $?

I need some help! I built a clone to the 383HT with a just slightly higher
CR (9.4). I had planned to run carb. I have a professional products vortec intake and a 600 Edlebrock suitable for rebuilding. I am slowly catching that EFI fever.
My options need to stay low $. The complete aftermarket options range from $2-5K, too much for my budget. The engine goes in a 49 Ford F-1 that I plan to tow up to 5000# such that torque is more important to me than HP. That is what drew me to the 383HT. My review of the less costly options leads me to the following:

1. Get a complete setup from a 96-98 350 Chevy truck (junkyard).

2. Get the same setup but use a Marine 350 Vortec intake to get away from poppet valve problems and get bigger injectors for the 383.

3. Buy the Scoggy Dickens Vortec base and use a TPI top.

I could really use some expert opinion of the options and related experience by others. What do you think? (yes, I know that I could stay with the carbed route)

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 11-13-2011, 12:41 PM
Valkyrie5.7's Avatar
www.generationhighoutput. com
 
Last wiki edit: Painting chrome wheels
Last journal entry: Stopping my journal entries here
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Phoenix
Age: 27
Posts: 897
Wiki Edits: 15

Thanks: 147
Thanked 71 Times in 62 Posts
Option 2 is your best bet as long as you have everything from option one. Personally I have a regular CSFI setup. The poppet system was replaced once right when I first owned it at around 180k. It's almost to 240k now with no issues at all. I've gone through 3 fuel pumps in that time. In everyday use, it functions just as well as the much better designed MPFI in the 4.6L ford I used to own. I can't speculate performance wise, as I'm very behind on my 5.7L build for it It's just a stock 5.0L vortec currently.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 11-13-2011, 04:09 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Age: 29
Posts: 8,866
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 17
Thanked 305 Times in 285 Posts
Go with a tpi style intake system with a msns system to control it upgrade the runners later if you want a little more power up top.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 11-14-2011, 06:12 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Woodstock
Posts: 869
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 68 Times in 62 Posts
I would do a Ramjet 350 Vortec intake over a TPI/SDPC conversion intake.

I just put a bunch of relevant pics in this post.

2-383 tpi's, need advice

I run the marine intake personally on a stock longblock L31. Using teh same PCM tune with only the injector flow rate (IFR) adjusted for the marine intakes 25 lb/hr @ 43.5 psi injectors(28.?@58psi). The marine intake made much better power from 3500rpm up and had better lower rpm torque. Much less power drop off over 5000rpm comparted to teh stock L30/31 Vortce 305/350 truck intake.
peace
Hog
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 11-14-2011, 06:43 PM
RippinRon's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Thornbury, Ontario
Age: 33
Posts: 948
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogg
I would do a Ramjet 350 Vortec intake over a TPI/SDPC conversion intake.
The stealth ram or tpi would be a better choice. Go for an intake with long runners to build torque.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 11-15-2011, 04:32 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Woodstock
Posts: 869
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 68 Times in 62 Posts
A 383 will be low on torque. With TPI it will be short on power.

peace
Hog
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 11-15-2011, 04:47 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: maine
Posts: 83
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogg
A 383 will be low on torque. With TPI it will be short on power.

peace
Hog
I do appreciate your posts and the posts of others on this thread.
I did get into the posts on another board and development of the use of the Marine intake which you played a significant role. I included option 2 specifically based on the work done by yourself and others a few years ago.
I am however a bit puzzled on your statment that "a 383 will be low on torque", The 383ht is supposed to be a torque motor and I thought that a torque motor would be happy with the smaller and long runners of the TPI. I do understand the low HP since it will not rev well. What am I missing here?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 11-15-2011, 04:53 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Woodstock
Posts: 869
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 68 Times in 62 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 49willard
I do appreciate your posts and the posts of others on this thread.
I did get into the posts on another board and development of the use of the Marine intake which you played a significant role. I included option 2 specifically based on the work done by yourself and others a few years ago.
I am however a bit puzzled on your statment that "a 383 will be low on torque", The 383ht is supposed to be a torque motor and I thought that a torque motor would be happy with the smaller and long runners of the TPI. I do understand the low HP since it will not rev well. What am I missing here?
Sorry, that should say WONT be short on torque, I'll fix it. My apologies.
And thanks for the recognition on the marine intake.

peace
Hog
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 11-16-2011, 06:39 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Age: 29
Posts: 8,866
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 17
Thanked 305 Times in 285 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogg
A 383 will be low on torque. With TPI it will be short on power.

peace
Hog

I agree that they wont be worth a damn for power over 5,000 RPM. However this engine won't be operating at that engine speed. A big power number is meaningless if its outside your operating range.

A good TPI unit is about the best intake out there for low end torque on an sbc. Its EXACTLY what you need. Power below 4,000 RPM is the primary target here, and I honestly cant thing of one intake that is better suited for that than the TPI.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 11-16-2011, 07:06 AM
Registered User
 

Last journal entry: New ride3
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: tx
Posts: 87
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
TPI is probably the best route, IMO. For the reasons already stated.. It will build more TQ down low, where you will be using it. The runners can be upgraded if you ever want a lil more out of it..

Plus it looks cool..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 11-16-2011, 06:04 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Woodstock
Posts: 869
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 68 Times in 62 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
I agree that they wont be worth a damn for power over 5,000 RPM. However this engine won't be operating at that engine speed. A big power number is meaningless if its outside your operating range.

A good TPI unit is about the best intake out there for low end torque on an sbc. Its EXACTLY what you need. Power below 4,000 RPM is the primary target here, and I honestly cant thing of one intake that is better suited for that than the TPI.
I was wondering why you brought up under 4000rpm POWER, that didnt make sense to me, UNTIL I re-read and saw that a 5000 lb tow was involved.

I'm not being arguementative here, but if someone wanted ultimate off idle low rpm torque, TBI meets that need. It makes torque peaks of 1800rpm, while stock TPI peaks are at 3200rpm.
TPI does build much more mid range torque than stock TBI. I wont even speak about TBI's upper rpm power peak.

However, since this particular application is for an L31 headed 383 with the Ramjet350/HT383/marine cam (196/206), will help a stock TPI inductions peak torque down way under 3000rpm.

So far as looks, teh TPI intake only takes a back seat to the 1990-1995 LT5 ZR-1 Vette intake. That TPI intake is cool looking for sure.

The marine intake was engineered for that exact camshaft, and those exact heads. It was also employeed on the marine 383 engines.

So TPI or marine, it all comes down to your particular wants/needs/desires, any of those will suit you better than the Ramjet intake I suggested.
Another point, the TPI setup is all aluminum, whereas only the upper plenum is on the marine intake.
A stock style TPI will do you just great for lower rpm torque on a 383. I'm just not a fan of the early SDPC TPI/Vortec conversion intakes. I had 4 hours of work(drilling/tapping/port-matching) to get mine to work on a TPI/Vortec headed 355 I built. I have heard they have gotten better. Plus its $400 just for that lower. Thats over 1/2 way to a brand new marine intake that includes brand new marine grade stainless EV6 29 lb/hr injectors stainless fuel rails, 4 bar(58psi) vacuum referenced fuel pressure regulator/t-body, upper plenum, lower manifold, IAT/MAP combo sensor etc etc etc, over $3500 of parts at Merc Marine prices.
Here is what you get:


I just wish these were cast in an all aluminum version.

peace
Hog

Last edited by Hogg; 11-16-2011 at 06:15 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 11-17-2011, 05:35 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: maine
Posts: 83
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hogg,
Thanks again for your responses. In that the 383 is going in a street truck with a currently very clean dressed engine (carburated) what options are available "dress up" the stock marine intake, in particular air cleaner. Currently the engine is painted the old "Porsche Red" (the color going on the truck) dressed with some polished aluminum. I can see painting the intake in the same red. The stock truck "snorkle" and the box (does the need for the box go away on the marine intake?) over the oval for the injector location is not exactly "snazzy". Unfortunately I need to try to keep the engine as clean as possible. I have not found much in aftermarket, any suggestions?
Also, do you happen to know the outside diameter of the plenum intake that I need to mate to? It appears to be of the order of 3 inches.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 11-17-2011, 08:35 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: maine
Posts: 83
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I placed a call to Michigan Motorz. Unfortunately they have been unable to get manifolds from GM for over 9 months and do not have any hope that the situation will change which just leaves the used manifold option. I have been calling around some.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 11-17-2011, 08:42 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Age: 29
Posts: 8,866
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 17
Thanked 305 Times in 285 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 49willard
Hogg,
Thanks again for your responses. In that the 383 is going in a street truck with a currently very clean dressed engine (carburated) what options are available "dress up" the stock marine intake, in particular air cleaner. Currently the engine is painted the old "Porsche Red" (the color going on the truck) dressed with some polished aluminum. I can see painting the intake in the same red. The stock truck "snorkle" and the box (does the need for the box go away on the marine intake?) over the oval for the injector location is not exactly "snazzy". Unfortunately I need to try to keep the engine as clean as possible. I have not found much in aftermarket, any suggestions?
Also, do you happen to know the outside diameter of the plenum intake that I need to mate to? It appears to be of the order of 3 inches.

If you want to be different the marine intake is that, but the TPI is better and cheaper and originally those were your goals. It also is a little more common but looks very ******. I would upgrade the runners if you can afford to though, it will help on a 383. A marine intake is a unique route though I will say that. Go to some 3rd gen camaro forums and look at the results they're getting, particularly under 4000 rpm.

Btw you can easily run tbi on an engine that has peak torque at 5000 rpm or tpi on an engine that peaks at 1500, those results are fairly meaningless as they're on completely different combos.

The choice is basically unique vs cheap, effective, and pretty. The flathead ford type goes for unique, the ls5.3l type goes for the later- either is right since the owner decides.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 11-17-2011, 10:46 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: maine
Posts: 83
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I have not decided which route I will go. I wanted to explore both options.
I have not found other options that are within my budget. I am not willing to pay more for injection than the total I spent on building the 383. One constraint that I do have which I did not mention and could make the
TPI setup a problem is that I am running a Zips waterpump risor housing to bring the waterpump/mechanical fan up 5 inches over stock SBC position. I want the mechanical fan for cooling reasons when towing. The Zips setup puts the fan centerline dead center on the radiator core (it would otherwise sit partially below the lower edge of the radiator core). What this does is crowd the area where an aftermarket intake filter setup would need to be for the TPI. My next step is to rough fitup a TPI manifold for spacial considerations. I have an engine builder friend that is in process of finding me a loaner TPI manifold for the test fit.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fuel Injection Fuel line Plumbing william27103 Engine 9 06-10-2011 05:22 PM
E85 compatible fuel filter, with fuel injection ripple Engine 5 05-10-2007 06:48 AM
fuel injection fuel filters ? Vortech 4.3 Engine 5 03-26-2006 10:39 AM
Fuel Injection Fuel Line Plumbing william27103 Engine 0 06-08-2004 10:31 PM
FUEL INJECTION FUEL PUMPS jpspridd Engine 3 10-17-2002 02:11 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.