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Old 10-18-2006, 05:24 AM
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garage

need some opinions and i know i can find one here.Moved in to a new house a year ago and finally sold the old place. After a year of making double payments. Boy that almost broke the bank hope i never have to do that again.Anyway i want to build a new shop because i'am lost with out one had a 26x40 at old place only reason the kid that bought it wanted it.Can't decide between a pole barn or stick built garage.Its to be 30x60 and i can go up to 14' high and no more than 24' to peak. If i go stick built i could put a bonus room truss on it a get 16x60 storage and extra space up above. what do you guys think. this is going to be a dream garage either way.

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Old 10-18-2006, 06:40 AM
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I believe the pole barn type structure would be cheaper to build but keep in mind the following drawbacks:

1) They are usually more difficult to insulate (most insulating materials are made for stick build construction at 16", 24" or 48" intervals. Pole buildings provide no way of hanging insulation.

2) Interior wall finish is more limited. If you DO insulate, you need to provide an interior wall to protect that insulation. Again, pole building supports are not built at the normal intervals that most drywall or other wall sheeting are made.

3) Hanging cabinets and shelving. Same problem as above. There just isn't much "structure" in a pole building to support cabinets and shelving. You can build it in later...but then you are defeating the cost savings of a pole structure.

4) Future expansion. Pole construction is often more difficult to add onto than is stick built...and sometimes almost impossible (think removing one or two of those support poles to open up the space).

Mostly, just think through completely exactly how you want to use this space. If you are simply storing cars and you are in a climate that doesn't require insulation, then pole buildings are an excellent alternative. If you want a full use shop that you can heat and/or cool and you need lots of work space, shelving, storage and other built ins, then I'd seriously be thinking stick built.
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Old 10-18-2006, 08:10 AM
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Get quotes both ways.
A pole barn "should" be the cheaper build initially. This will get you in the door. Cboy brings up some good points but you can always stud in the walls at a later date when you get the time and money. This is what I did with my shop and it is easy to do when it comes time to wire, insulate and drywall. I actually had the builder order the wall studs when they ordered the materials and then did the work myself. My "pole barn" is a full use shop that is heated, has painted drywall and cabinets hanging on the walls. I see no issues with going this route for any type of use...
I just added onto my pole barn last fall. Even though I only opened up a 3' doorway between the old and new I could have done an 8' opening as this is the distance between the poles and this wouldn't effect anything in the trusses or headers. Adding on shouldn't be an issue at all...
Your attic truss will work just as well on a pole built as a stick built. A little extra work at the headers will be required to support them as opposed to a regular roof truss.
Talk to a builder about your ideas, they will have the knowledge to know what is up to code so this is your best recourse.
Mark

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Old 10-18-2006, 10:17 AM
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At my last house I had a 30 x 45 foot Morton pole barn built. While I never finished the interior for reasons beyond my control, it had a gable end 12' entry that was big enough to fit my 5th wheel camper. I could store the camper plus two cars and still have space enough for a fairly large workshop, again, never finished. The barn, plus clearing the land, extending my driveway, crushed stone for the drive and as a base for the intended concrete floor set me back about $13K. I purchased conduit and electrics, a lot of framing materials and insulation for the workshop for another $1K. A totaled, with a few more odds and ends, probably had less than $15-16K involved. Since building materials have risen a lot, this could probably be duplicated for $25K in 2006. Then you decide how much of a shop you really need and go from there.

I am considering a much smaller pole barn when we move in a couple of years just for a shop - my wife says we have too much dust in the house now. Pole barns, IMO are the way to go

Dave
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Old 10-18-2006, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cboy
I believe the pole barn type structure would be cheaper to build but keep in mind the following drawbacks:

1) They are usually more difficult to insulate (most insulating materials are made for stick build construction at 16", 24" or 48" intervals. Pole buildings provide no way of hanging insulation.

2) Interior wall finish is more limited. If you DO insulate, you need to provide an interior wall to protect that insulation. Again, pole building supports are not built at the normal intervals that most drywall or other wall sheeting are made.

3) Hanging cabinets and shelving. Same problem as above. There just isn't much "structure" in a pole building to support cabinets and shelving. You can build it in later...but then you are defeating the cost savings of a pole structure.

4) Future expansion. Pole construction is often more difficult to add onto than is stick built...and sometimes almost impossible (think removing one or two of those support poles to open up the space).

Mostly, just think through completely exactly how you want to use this space. If you are simply storing cars and you are in a climate that doesn't require insulation, then pole buildings are an excellent alternative. If you want a full use shop that you can heat and/or cool and you need lots of work space, shelving, storage and other built ins, then I'd seriously be thinking stick built.



You do raise many good points to consider, but I don't think that they are all drawbacks. I'll be honest, I have a pole barn, and I found that you still save over stick even with some of the points mentioned. If I may, I would like to address some of the points made.

Like for instance, with your first point... Pole buildings build with poles every 8ft on center. For insulation in a building like this, you would only need vertical studs every 2ft or 3 studs per every 8ft (as opposed to 6 vertical studs needed in conventional construction)

This would allow for hanging insulation with semi conventional insulation, and as referenced in the second and third point would supply support for drywall (aka. sheet rock) and shelving.

As for hanging cabinets, if you are like me, I tend to "over fill" my cabinets with heavy stuff and hardly ever hit the studs with screws while I'm hanging them, so I will often hang "blocking" before drywall to hold the cabinets if I know where they are going, or hang some plywood behind the cabinets after drywall is up. That's just me, but here you can do it how you like.

On to point 4)... Future expansion I believe is easier than stick built. With Pole construction, you unscrew the metal panels, knock off the horizontal studs (only 4studs per 8ftx8ft section) and now you have an open wall. If you needed more than a 8ft section opened up, the large poles are often made of 4 layers of 2x6 studs (it is how they get the tall poles). A pole made of 8ft of 10ft 2x6 boards are not that difficult to remove.

I do agree with cboy that you need to think through completely how you want to use this space. But if you need to change your mind, I would recommend a pole building.

Our pole building is 48x72x16 (3,456 sqft), has radiant floor heat, and started with a full bathroom on the main floor. In one corner, we put a 2 post and a 4 post lift. I filled the garage with cars, and found that we wanted more storage space, so we built a second floor strong enough to store multiple engines on it. The 2nd floor covers everything but a 24ftx24ft section where the lifts are.

The 4 post lift works as an elevator, where heavy items in my pick-up will raise up, and the tailgate opens flush with the second floor (no lifting or carrying heavy items upstairs).

Since the time of the photos that are posted, we added some windows and put an 1100 sqft 3 bedroom apartment on the second floor, another full bath, Kitchen, Living room, Dining room, with AC and radiant floor heat. This still leaves us with almost 1800sqft of storage.

In the storage area on the second floor, I can store all my car parts, some apartment stuff, and we still had room to put in a pool table, Air hockey table and foose-ball table!

I couldn’t afford 1/3 of the cost of the building if it were built by traditional "stick", but with the maintenance free metal covering taxes are also lower!

Where else can a guy build a 16+ car garage, have storage, and live there too for a third of what houses are going for here in western NY (that's western NY state not NY city)?

I'll have more photos available soon.

Pole barns are not what you think, they are what you can make them!

Best of luck!

~Joe
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Old 10-18-2006, 06:22 PM
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Great looking shop low budget wish i could build that big but i'am limited to 1800'. My last shop had 14' side walls with a loft over the paint area that was 26x14. I really liked the storage in the loft and on sidewalls i had. Got a few pictures of it in my journal.Thought as long as i was building new may as well get as much storage as possible. Need a space for all that good junk you know.
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Old 10-19-2006, 10:27 AM
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Thank you... I'm still working on it, but I hope to be done with it by christmas!

~J
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Old 10-19-2006, 10:48 AM
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I just checked out your shop... looks nice! I like the railing along the stairs and loft. Looking at the projects - I think I am going to be needing a rottisery too. Keep up the great work!

Best of luck

~J
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Old 10-19-2006, 03:09 PM
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If I were building something that big I'd probably go with a pole barn.

I've heard that a pole barn can hold excessive moisture. True or untrue?

Danny
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Old 10-19-2006, 05:52 PM
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Looks like i may go the pole building route. I have a appointment with the Morton guy a week from sat. I found a building on their web site that i think will work. The boss says that now that she has her dream house I'm not going to junk it up with an ugly garage or with my old car sitting around in the open.So we'll see if this fits into the budget. I've loaded a shot of the building . It's a horse barn but should be able to put in overhead doors an some real horsepower. Also put in one of new house and one of the lot. We got a real nice 3 arce lot with house and it's a longer drive to work but it sure is nice here.
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Old 10-20-2006, 06:52 AM
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Hey Kampr,

you asked "I've heard that a pole barn can hold excessive moisture. True or untrue?"

I believe this to be untrue.

The barn does not hold excessive moisture, but the metal when it gets hot and then cold (night / day) condensation can occur. With a ridge and sofit vents, as well as a vapor barrier / house wrap (ie Tyvek), I have not found any moisture in my structure what so ever.

If you happen to be in western NY, stop by. I'd be more than happy to show you around my barn!

swvalcon,

If you find a Morton building expensive, I found that local Mennonites (like the Amish, but they drive cars and modern equipment) build buildings inexpensive with generally a higher quality of craftsmanship.

If you show them a picture of what you would like the building to look like, they often can build it for about 1/2 the price of Morton buildings.

Best of luck all,

~Joe
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Old 10-20-2006, 07:37 AM
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Also keep in mind a "pole barn" does NOT have to have metal roofing or siding... My pole barn was originally built with T-111 wood siding and a shingle roof. At the time (1985) it was cheaper then steel... It's also much quieter... When I got done insulating and drywalling it was no different on the inside then a stick built.

Keeping heat in the building, even if it is just 50 degrees or so, will also keep moisture and condensation at bay... I have to do this just to keep the lathes and machine tools from crusting over.
Mark
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Old 10-23-2006, 02:50 AM
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Before you buy a pole building, check out Miracle Steel out of Minnesota. (also called Miracle Truss) They do it a little different. I built a 30 by 48 foot garage and once the concrete work was done, we had it up in two weekends. Super solid building. They are simple to change and insulate at any time in the future. I partitioned off one 12 foot by 30 foot bay to use as a heated workshop. Two 7 foot electric baseboard heaters heat it beautifully. My building was about $27,000 for everything about 6 years ago. Good luck.
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Old 10-23-2006, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanTwoLakes
Before you buy a pole building, check out Miracle Steel out of Minnesota... My building was about $27,000 for everything about 6 years ago. Good luck.
I guess that means $77,000 in todays prices! I know prices have doubled in steel in the past year.

Good luck!
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Old 10-23-2006, 08:54 AM
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I've added onto my garage(now 56x26) with conventional, and also built a 30x40x12 polebarn.

To do my barn over, I would have gone the stick built method with attic trusses. 2x6 walls 2' on center, with 1x3 furring strips and metal exterior. Pour the haunched slab, 3 rows of 8" block(filled), and set the walls on top.

My pole barn has air conditoning and heat. We get a range in temperature from 20 below zero to 100 degrees. Zero condensation. I used a fiber type ridge vent with full vent soffit. I also didn't plug off the ridges with foam. I insulated the ceiling (white- metal, same as siding) with the 4' closest to the wall in 6" batt insulation, and blown in for the balance. If I would have installed baffles prior to installing the ceiling, I would have gone all blown in.

I built 2x4 walls in between the 8x8 posts. And insulated them. I also used 7/16 OSB painted white for the interior wall.

Just remember, your O/H doors will need to be about 16" shorter than your ceiling height!

I would do my heat system in the attic truss next time, too.

Wiring and air plumbing. I put it 8' on center and just about every single outlet for air and power is in the way or covered by something.
I will end up putting (2) hose reels and (4) cord reels down the center eventually. Makes cleaning up easier. No cords or hoses to wind or hang.
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