Garage Art? motor wont start - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Electrical
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05-15-2005, 10:57 AM
trident's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Blue Springs, MO
Age: 61
Posts: 47
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Garage Art? motor wont start

I've come to the short end of my mechanical skills. Heres where I'm at: I have a 1965 Chevy C-10. In it is a 350 motor and a turbo 350 trans. A few months ago I drove it into the garage where I pulled out the stock steering column and put in a column from a 1971 tilt column also from a Chevy truck. I also converted to power steering. Now, here is where I get lost- The wiring from the '71 column does not match the stock wiring in the truck. I don't know that this has anything to do with my problem or not. But, I can't seem to figure out why the motor won't start. I'm not getting gas from the fuel pump. Isn't this a mechanical pump (stock)? would it be connected with any of the electrical wiring on the column? As far as I can reason, the column wiring is for turn signals, flasher, and horn. What about the safety neutral switch? It's not on the column (but I got it used and it may just be "missing"). I don't see it on the transmission either. If the neutral switch is not there, would this stop gas from pumping? I'm thinking not since sometimes you"pump" the gas pedal before starting.
Any advise would be great as I'm starting to think a used trailer and a trip to a shop may be the quickest way to get this truck back on the road.

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 05-15-2005, 05:08 PM
docvette's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Rebuild an alternator Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Lafayette, california
Age: 62
Posts: 7,362
Wiki Edits: 12

Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 3 Posts
Fuel

Doc here,

If your truck is a 1965 stock, unmodified system, your fuel pump is (or should be) mechanical...If your Not Getting Fuel on a mechanical setup, the steering column will have no effect on the problem.

You need to determine if the problem is mechanical or electrical first. To do that, get some start fluid or (Very carefully) pour a small amount of Gas in the Carb throat, and crank it...If it fires and runs briefly, Its mechanical...most likely Fuel pump failure..clogged Fuel Filter, or clogged pick up at the tank.

If it DOES NOT fire, It's Electrical...

To Troubleshoot that, Determine if you have Spark.

Is this engine Stock and points type or an HEI?

If it's points type, lift the cap and rotor, crank the engine until the lobe is on any low spot, Then using an insulated Screw driver, with the key on, CAREFULLY without touching the screwdriver to ground or touching the metal blade yourself , open up the points...Does it spark?

If no, Get a Volt/ohm meter and check the coil for power, It should read (with the points CLOSED) 6 to 9 volts, (with the points OPEN) 12 to 14.4 volts.

Do you Have power?...

If not find the Coil resistor (should be in the area of the coil, about an inch wide, and 3 or 4 inches long..and if working hot as hell..) Measure Both sides of the resistor with your meter..you should have the 6 to 9 volts on the Coil side and 12 volts on the other..

If you have Both....Check the points, (or magnetic pickup and module in HEI or Electronic Ignition) If good, Then test or replace the Coil..

If you have 12 volts in, but nothing out..replace the resistor..

If you have no Power into the resistor, You have an "OPEN" wire between that, and your Ignition switch, OR an Ignition switch failure itself..

To verify and test, Carefully,Take a short jumper wire and hook it from the battery Power, and run it to the Coil direct..crank it and see if it fires..(Run It only briefly as this will DAMAGE the system If non HEI, Ergo, bypassing the resistor..) If so, then troubleshoot the ignition power wire between the switch and coil for an open or broken or frayed wire...

IF it has spark Static (not cranking..) but loses it when you go to crank the engine, You need to check the Secondary Ignition wire The runs from the Starter Solenoid "I" Terminal to the coil resistor...For a bad connection, burned or frayed wire, or just plain Flat open wire, and on a rare occasion, the solenoid itself can be at fault..

When you go to turn the key from the run to the start position, the power switches off everything in the car EXCEPT the Solenoid energize line..(if it is unmolested and stock) Including the primary Ignition..This is why the Secondary Ignition is wired Direct and momentary from the starter solenoid..When you let off the key, the Primary ignition returns and the solenoid cuts off the secondary when not cranking..

The Neutral Safety Switch Will have no effect on any of this provided: IT is wired correctly, AND The engine actually Cranks..

It's function and sole purpose in life is to open the power to the solenoid energize line itself..(to disable the starter function)

When the switch is open..(Not Neutral, Park or Clutch engaged override is open) So the engine can not get a start signal, while in gear, or the clutch pedal is not depressed..

If it is Electrical, and you follow the above procedures, you'll find it real quick..You only need a Volt ohm meter and a little patents to track it down (better than paying , at least by Calif labor rates..95 bucks an hour, and towing! )

For An HEI System to verify Spark, The easiest way to determine Spark (without getting zapped trying to hold a plug and wire off ground while cranking.. ) Get a Timing light, and hook it to ANY plug wire and crank, if your getting Spark, It WILL strobe...

Print out this post and use it as a check list as you verify the items, It's easier than trying to remember it all....

Keep Us Posted on the Progress!

Doc
__________________
Aftermarket Solutions
Electronic & Electrical
Innovations
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 05-15-2005, 06:15 PM
trident's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Blue Springs, MO
Age: 61
Posts: 47
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Great! I've taken your advise and printed it to read it over again. I will try to check it all out over the next couple of days. I misled you I guess. The motor is not stock to the truck. It's a mild build with HEI. I bought the truck from someone who put in the motor and trany (both new) with some other mods to the truck. The worst thing about it is the wiring looks like, well let's just say it looks real bad. many wires, some twisted together and taped up with duct tape. Other just twisted together and no tape. I've gone through and fixed the ones I could (before the motor would't start). I plan to rewire the truck this winter. Just want to have some fun driving it this summer. I'll keep you posted- and thanks!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 05-19-2005, 06:43 PM
trident's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Blue Springs, MO
Age: 61
Posts: 47
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Well looks like I've got an electrical problem. Pulled a plug wire and no spark. I do have an ACCELL HEI. What should I do next? I still wonder about the safety nuetral switch (or lack of one). Just how do they work. Is there any way to by-pass for now to get the motor started (if that's the cause.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 05-19-2005, 07:43 PM
jmhollis's Avatar
79 El Camino
 

Last journal entry: Trans attached
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Grapevine, TX
Posts: 82
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
A neutral safety switch will only prevent cranking (the starter won't turn). If you can crank the engine, look elsewhere.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 05-19-2005, 08:11 PM
trident's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Blue Springs, MO
Age: 61
Posts: 47
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Ok, then that's not the problem. It cranks and it doesn't matter what gear it's in apparently.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 05-19-2005, 10:16 PM
trident's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Blue Springs, MO
Age: 61
Posts: 47
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I've been reading some of the old threads concerning HEI's and think this is where I will start checking next. Sounds like this may be a fairly common problem, but not impossible to fix.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 05-20-2005, 04:37 AM
docvette's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Rebuild an alternator Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Lafayette, california
Age: 62
Posts: 7,362
Wiki Edits: 12

Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 3 Posts
Jumper BATT Terminal

Doc here,
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
To verify and test, Carefully,Take a short jumper wire and hook it from the battery Power, and run it to the Coil direct..crank it and see if it fires..(Run It only briefly as this will DAMAGE the system If non HEI, Ergo, bypassing the resistor..) If so, then troubleshoot the ignition power wire between the switch and coil for an open or broken or frayed wire...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

This will be the terminal on the HEI Cap marked BATT, If it still wont run,

pull the module out and take it to the local autoparts store and get it tested (most do it free)..If it's bad replace it, and have them TEST the new one...several times (new ones fail right out of the box or under heat stress is why you want it tested.)

If the module is good, Your magnetic pickup may be shot inside the distributer..check the Accel Instructions for ohmic values..Test or replace (requires removal of the distributer)

Doc
__________________
Aftermarket Solutions
Electronic & Electrical
Innovations
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 05-20-2005, 07:51 PM
trident's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Blue Springs, MO
Age: 61
Posts: 47
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
It's alive!! Thanks docvette and jmhollis. Found the problem today after reading docvette's last last post. Turned out to be the wiring to the starter switch. The guy I bought the truck from had no less than 4 splices in the wire coming from the HEI. I untaped it all and found one that had separated. Put it back together and the motor fired right off. Theres no way I'm leaving this wiring mess under my dash though (who else uses duct tape?). I'm going to take the truck out for a ride tomorrow, then start putting in new wires. If I go slow and do just part of it at a time I think I can handle it. Thanks again guys, you don't know how happy this makes me (and the wife can quit saying "that junk in the garage"). I've got her committed to ridding along this September to the Good Guys show in K.C.Kansas this year. If I can get a few more things fixed up on the truck and get her out there she will get a good idea what this is all about. Just wish I would have discovered hot rods about 20 years ago!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Electrical posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Painting in your Garage Centerline Body - Exterior 22 08-31-2007 10:23 AM
head gasket replacement now car won't start jesse01 Engine 10 04-28-2007 05:53 AM
What did your Garage Cost? Hot Rod/SS Garage - Tools 11 02-07-2004 01:36 PM
Monster Garage!!!! Kevin45 Hotrodders' Lounge 9 12-03-2003 02:25 PM
My garage got flooded Rodrunner Garage - Tools 9 02-23-2003 02:33 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.