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mitmaks 12-13-2011 05:42 PM

garage heater
 
I want to do bodywork/paint in winter months. I was thinking about getting 30K BTU propane tank mounted heater and go at it. I have 3 car garage and one bay is set up as a temporary spray booth. Should it work out or is there possible problems?

matts37chev 12-13-2011 05:53 PM

if it vents to the outside it would be ok (i think)
propane heat is very wet if the flame is exposed to the room you are heating

i dont know if im explaining this very well :smash:

mitmaks 12-13-2011 07:35 PM

Maybe I should go with Kerosene then, I think kerosene is more expensive but its supposedly is clean burning. Am I correct?

matts37chev 12-13-2011 09:45 PM

both kerosene and propane exhaust will need to be vented to the outside (chimney/vent) because of moister and soot

if the style you are looking at does, it will be fine :thumbup:

I would think electric is the easiest heat,for a shop you will be painting in

dinger 12-13-2011 11:55 PM

I would go propane for ease of installation. It burns pretty clean ( a lot depends on the supplier) and ease of installation. B vent is the same as hot water heater venting, inexpensive and easy to shoot out the roof. If you went direct vent it would be enclosed and there would be no problems of any contaminants. A heater hanging from the ceiling works well, puts out a LOT of heat in a short time.

joe_padavano 12-14-2011 07:37 AM

Kerosene is NOT clean and must not be used in an enclosed space. Vent-free propane heaters can be used indoors (all now have an oxygen depletion sensor anyway) but they DO create a lot of water vapor. Both have exposed flame and will possibly cause an explosion if you are spraying any solvents or paints.

matts37chev 12-14-2011 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe_padavano
Both have exposed flame and will possibly cause an explosion if you are spraying any solvents or paints.

good point :thumbup:
I kinda feel like all the heaters, if in the same room, should be shut off while spraying
or you may have the kind of flame job you didnt want :pain:

TurboS10 12-14-2011 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matts37chev
good point :thumbup:
I kinda feel like all the heaters, if in the same room, should be shut off while spraying
or you may have the kind of flame job you didnt want :pain:


I realize you have to be careful, but I have sprayed with an open flame heater in the same building....and I didn't die :thumbup:

What I did was build a spray booth with heavy mil plastic. It was from floor to roof. I also built a boost exhaust fan that pulled air from the booth out of my roll up door. I am in the country so I got away without a big "green" exhaust system. I installed an A/C filter in the top rear of the spray both with lots of packing tape.

When I painted, I heated the entire shop for a couple of hours so everything including the car was up to temperature. Then I cracked the exterior door outside the booth and kept the heater running. Once I was ready to paint I kicked on the exhaust fan which drew warm air from the rest of the shop into the booth and with the heater on high it was able to help preheat the "fresh air" coming in the cracked entry door.

Now, this will work if the outside temp is not too cold and if you dont have alot to paint at one time. What I was doing was painting in pieces.

It is redneck engineering, but it worked. My heater is a 40,000btu forced air propane heater and it does pretty well in a 1200 ft shop.

dinger 12-14-2011 09:52 AM

If you have a vented propane heater you shouldn't have moisture problems. I believe where moisture problems come up is when things cool there will be a moisture left behind as the metal cools. Getting everything toasty warm will help, as everything warms in the shop, tools, cars, walls, etc., the heat will stick around longer. This may take heating the shop for a few hours before you start working. I would get the shop warm, 72-75 degrees, shut the heater off, do my painting, wait until the paint is set up fairly well, then turn the heat back on for a few hours. I don't much like vent free heating, moisture, gasses, have to go somewhere. 99% efficiency is just that, but there are not a lot of btu's involved. A ceiling mounted heater would be my first choice, run copper for propane, a thermostat, vent through the roof, a fairly simple job to do. If you were in a colder state this might not work too well but you don't get terribly cold in Wa. Turbo has the right idea for his set-up.

TurboS10 12-14-2011 10:31 AM

Oh yeah, one more thing.

If you do exhaust and fresh air venting, which is a must for painting you need to oversize your heater a bunch or your shop will be cold in about 3 minutes after you kick on the fan. Most heaters are rated in BTU's, and a ton of heat is 12000 BTU's. To heat you can do a decent job with 4-800 ft/ton depending on insulation and ceiling height. If you vent it heavily the amount of heat needed to hold temperature even a little while goes up dramatically. I would try to get 40-60K btu heater at least if you want to keep the shop warm for more than a few minutes if it is very cold outside at all. My 40K unit will heat my 1200ft shop in a half hour or so if outside temp is 20-30 degrees. Then I can idle it back to low and hold temperature....or keep it throttled up if vented or a door is open.

ogre 12-14-2011 10:48 AM

buy a used home heater off of craigslist. i have a 100 gal propane tank outside, fill it once a yr

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...1018111553.jpg

matts37chev 12-14-2011 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurboS10
I realize you have to be careful, but I have sprayed with an open flame heater in the same building....and I didn't die :thumbup:


yet :pain:



Quote:

Originally Posted by ogre
buy a used home heater off of craigslist. i have a 100 gal propane tank outside, fill it once a yr

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...1018111553.jpg

this a good and cheap, way to go :thumbup:

I have an electric forced air furnace that came out of a newer home that was converted to a heatpump, in my garage
i just plug it into my welder extension cord when I want to use it :thumbup:

TurboS10 12-14-2011 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matts37chev
yet :pain:




this a good and cheap, way to go :thumbup:

I have an electric forced air furnace that came out of a newer home that was converted to a heatpump, in my garage
i just plug it into my welder extension cord when I want to use it :thumbup:

Actually....

The furnace on your heater there has an open flame with a tiny little combustion fan. If it resides in the shop in question it is no different than my propane heater....maybe worse. It has a fixed flame with little air circulation around the flame itself making it more of a bomb situation. This is because the air in the room is not very turbulent so the fumes can creep toward the open flame and become very concentrated until the combustion fan picks them up at which point they can be very strong. It is like the whole gas leak with pilot light situation. With a forced air setup the air is circulating rigorously through the combustion chamber so fumes would be more likely to burn off slowly before they were concentrated enough to explode.

Oh, and that electric heater element will create combustion as well.

I still think if you isolate the paint booth from the heater location and keep the exhaust fan running you are perfectly safe.

mitmaks 12-14-2011 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurboS10
Actually....

The furnace on your heater there has an open flame with a tiny little combustion fan. If it resides in the shop in question it is no different than my propane heater....maybe worse. It has a fixed flame with little air circulation around the flame itself making it more of a bomb situation. This is because the air in the room is not very turbulent so the fumes can creep toward the open flame and become very concentrated until the combustion fan picks them up at which point they can be very strong. It is like the whole gas leak with pilot light situation. With a forced air setup the air is circulating rigorously through the combustion chamber so fumes would be more likely to burn off slowly before they were concentrated enough to explode.

Oh, and that electric heater element will create combustion as well.

I still think if you isolate the paint booth from the heater location and keep the exhaust fan running you are perfectly safe.

That;s that I'm planning on doing. I think I'll go with 70K BTU kerosene heater

matts37chev 12-14-2011 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurboS10
Actually....

The furnace on your heater there has an open flame with a tiny little combustion fan. If it resides in the shop in question it is no different than my propane heater....maybe worse. It has a fixed flame with little air circulation around the flame itself making it more of a bomb situation. This is because the air in the room is not very turbulent so the fumes can creep toward the open flame and become very concentrated until the combustion fan picks them up at which point they can be very strong. It is like the whole gas leak with pilot light situation. With a forced air setup the air is circulating rigorously through the combustion chamber so fumes would be more likely to burn off slowly before they were concentrated enough to explode.

Oh, and that electric heater element will create combustion as well.

I still think if you isolate the paint booth from the heater location and keep the exhaust fan running you are perfectly safe.

my answer to that is
Quote:

Originally Posted by matts37chev
good point :thumbup:
I kinda feel like all the heaters, if in the same room, should be shut off while spraying
or you may have the kind of flame job you didnt want :pain:

I have been in the gasoline /tanker transport industry as a driver or tanker mechanic most of my adult working life

I have had it beat into my brain in training classes :nono:

I am very aware of possible ignition sources and vapor type fuel pathways

so sometimes i can get a little weird about this stuff :boxing:

so I am sorry if I get over excited :spank:


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