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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 04-13-2008, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Fool
I have arrived at a job site to fix an "air leak" and low and behold what did I find, a blown out section of garden hose ran across the rafters linking 2 areas together, ROFLOL!

LMAO , In all my years of plumbing/repairing air systems I have seen some really goofy things and I think I can top that one! I once saw a 55 gallon oil drum used for a pressure tank! That thing was swollen out almost round and the ends were bulged out but he did not seem concerned at all about it or what might happen! He had it pressurized to around 50 lbs (he said he only used it to air up tires) which is far more than I would have thought it capable of holding and more than enough to have been a major disaster if it had of ruptured but at least he had it in a fenced in area where no one was likely to be around it. He had plumbed the air lines in the plug fittings in the top and even had a drain valve on the thing! I have been tempted to mention this thing before when the discussion got around to air tanks but I was afraid no one would believe me but since you have the story about the water hose/air line I thought this might be a good time to point out what some people will do.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 04-13-2008, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Fool
...Galvanized sched 40 is a the best option, but slow to work with and requires specials tools.

Black iron pipe is also an option, but the moisture will start rusting on the id and that will head right to your end use device.

Type L copper is also a good option, more expensive, but easier to work with and requires only a turbo torch and tubing cutter...
This is one of the few times that I've seen Galvanized sched 40 mentioned as the best option.
I usually read that copper is better. I can't afford copper so I'm using Galvanized sched 40 for my new ToyRoom in a couple months.

Thanks for the advice.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 04-13-2008, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanctifier
This is one of the few times that I've seen Galvanized sched 40 mentioned as the best option.
I usually read that copper is better. I can't afford copper so I'm using Galvanized sched 40 for my new ToyRoom in a couple months.

Thanks for the advice.
Good choice, it will last nearly forever.

I know of NO reason why copper would be better, easier yes, better no, imho.
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Old 04-13-2008, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Fool
I know of NO reason why copper would be better, easier yes, better no, imho.


Copper has a big advantage in cooling and thus helps to remove moisture from the air so in this respect it can be better. Over long distances (over 100 ft) this advantage would be lost but in a small shop where the air line can be 50 ft or less this cooling advantage can help quite a bit. There is also the argument that galvanized pipe will flake off and cause problems but I have seen a heck of a lot of galvanized pipe used and I have never seen this to be a problem. I agree that the galvanized pipe is a good choice, a very good choice in fact, and although Copper is my favorite I would not recommend spending a lot of extra money for Copper over iron pipe unless the system is going to be really short and the piping is going to be the major source for cooling before the water separator.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 04-14-2008, 05:59 AM
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I agree with the cooling aspect, I was only thinking of the mechanical aspects.

For not a lot of money why not put a few feet of copper fin tube , and add a fan if you wish, the best of both worlds.

p.s. You can find used fin tube relatively cheap at metal salvage and used appliance businesses.
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Old 04-14-2008, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Fool
I agree with the cooling aspect, I was only thinking of the mechanical aspects.

For not a lot of money why not put a few feet of copper fin tube , and add a fan if you wish, the best of both worlds.

p.s. You can find used fin tube relatively cheap at metal salvage and used appliance businesses.
Yup, good idea. Actually I'm going to try to take that one step further...
Quote:
Install Air-cooled Aftercooler after the pump's 2nd stage...
and before the receiver inlet... just like bigger IR compressors etc.
"Dropping-out" as much moisture as possible before the receiver should lengthen its life too.

Pipe receiver outlet to Refrigerated Air-dryer inlet... and pipe dryer outlet to air-supply "closed double-loop" system.
Don't want to step on this thread any more than we have already; so I'll post a new thread later (with sample pix) on "Advice Please: DRY air supply needed!"

Thanks.

Last edited by Sanctifier; 04-15-2008 at 02:56 AM.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 04-15-2008, 12:09 AM
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Copper is best for cooling

Unless you need hard plumbed - dedicated connectors, I think for most average size shops a setup like mine doesn't take up much space, doesn't cost a lot in copper and with my shop being 22x40 the 50ft reel hose reaches every corner.

If I need more outlets - I'd probably plumb a manifold and hang another hose.

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Old 07-28-2011, 09:55 AM
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At one time or another Iíve had shops set up with PVC, Iron and copper.

PVC, as many others have noted, can be very dangerous; the pipe is not designed to be used with air and has integrity issues with changes in temperature and any exposure to sunlight.

Iron was safe and secure but had several issues: it was a pain to install because we had to thread almost every joint and after about six months started to become a maintenance nightmare as the rust in the lines started causing issues with my machines. Even just using the blow guns was messy with all of the rusty spray going everywhere.

Copper is what I had in my last shop and overall was a good system; secure, safe and while not maintenance free (there were some electrolysis issues) it was a solid system. The only negative things about it were: it was very expensive! That copperís not cheap and while easier than iron to install it still took a long time to sweat all the joints.

I built a new, and hopefully last, shop a couple years ago and used a new aluminum pipe system that i wish had been available back when i did my first shop. It has all the "pros" and none of the "cons" of every other system Iíve used. It is safe and secure, extremely easy to install (it took a helper and myself less than a day to install air completely throughout my 8000sqft shop), to date Iíve not had any maintenance or contamination issues, and best of all it was inexpensive - especially compared to copper!

If you want to see any pictures of my latest (last, if I have anything to say about it) shop let me know and Iíll shoot you a couple. Here is the place where I purchased my system http://www.speedsourceusa.com/prevost-air-systems.html - They were easy to work with and helped me out with the design layout a lot.

So to boil it all down Iíd say no to PVC and Iron and yes to either Copper or Aluminum.
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Old 07-29-2011, 08:54 AM
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Another issue with PVC

I am in the compressor business. PVC doesn't react well with synthetic compressor oils. Usually not an issue in a garage environment but you never know what some people will put in their compressors. If they even think to change the oil at all.
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Old 07-29-2011, 09:09 AM
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Are you insinuating that PVC can be OK in some circumstances? I too was in the compressor business for over thirty years and I am well familiar with PVC, PVC should never, ever, under any circumstances be used for compressed air and anyone in the compressor business should know that! Yes PVC can certainly react to certain oils, it also reacts to UV, heat and aging! It is extremely sensitive to shock when under pressure and even a fairly light blow that would barely dent Copper could easily cause PVC piping to send potentially deadly shards across a shop, metal piping sometimes leaks PVC explodes! The dangers of PVC are well known and accidents have resulted from it's use, serious accidents causing it to be banned for the use of transporting compressed gases, including air, by both OSHA and MSHA years ago (unless buried or enclosed in steel conduit). PVC should never be used for air line and even if it was safe the poor cooling qualities make it a very poor choice.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2011, 09:09 AM
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So y'all are against the PVC in a home 2 car garage? That you don't use the compressor every day and just need it at different times. I'm thinking of doing so I have air near the garage door and don't have to undo my 25ft hose every time.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2011, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLKSVT
So y'all are against the PVC in a home 2 car garage? That you don't use the compressor every day and just need it at different times. I'm thinking of doing so I have air near the garage door and don't have to undo my 25ft hose every time.

If you are considering PVC it could be a very bad mistake, PVC can get you hurt! When PVC ruptures it does so violently and sends razor sharp shards in all directions and many things can cause it to fail even just age. I think the problem is most people have no idea just how violently a PVC pipe rupture is, it will not just spring a leak like metal piping but instead it will shatter along a long length and the shrapnel it throws could cause serious harm. Besides even if it was safe it is a very bad choice for air supply line from the compressor due to it's poor cooling properties making it harder to remove moisture from the air. PVC can get you hurt and don't let anyone tell you it is safe, it's not!
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Old 07-29-2011, 09:22 AM
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Pvc

I have never, in the 26 years I have been in the compressor business, approved of PVC in a compressed air system. I was just adding another bullet into the gun aimed at those who think PVC is acceptable.
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Old 07-29-2011, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maulerman
I have never, in the 26 years I have been in the compressor business, approved of PVC in a compressed air system. I was just adding another bullet into the gun aimed at those who think PVC is acceptable.


Sorry if I took it wrong but this has been a sensitive issue and some people still think PVC is ok. We had a couple of people here that removed their PVC systems and were very surprised at just how brittle and weak they had become, scary to think of all the PVC out there in home shops. These accidents do happen but like a lot of things that commonly get people hurt it's rarely reported unless it happens in a commercial setting so people hardly ever hear about it.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2011, 12:07 PM
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FYI I just put a bunch of new links into the Air Compressors category of the Hotrodders Knowledge Base. They were gathered from various Garage/Tools forums.

The OSHA pages warning against using PVC for transport of compressed air are included, as well as a bunch of other tech info.

Please let me know if there's anything else that should be included in that category, or if any currently-included links should be excluded. AFAIK, that category of the Knowledge Base is now the best resource on the web for air compressor info.
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