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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 08-01-2011, 05:55 PM
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Here are three links you can consider for inclusion.
Keeping Your Compressor Quiet
http://route60garage.blogspot.com/20...sor-quiet.html
The Science Behind Piping Your Air Compressor
http://route60garage.blogspot.com/20...-your-air.html
WTF is a Franzinator?
http://route60garage.blogspot.com/20...anzinator.html

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Last edited by hduff; 08-01-2011 at 06:10 PM.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 08-04-2011, 12:19 PM
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When every one is taking copper. Are you using soldered joints or compression joints?
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Old 08-04-2011, 04:30 PM
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Soldered joints.
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Old 08-04-2011, 04:57 PM
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amcginley dug up this old thread to advertise and will never be heard from again.
single posters have gotten so bad lately, i don't reply to any poster that doesn't have at least 5 posts.
register, post once and never to be heard from again...

well, unless it's in the intro self forum
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Old 08-04-2011, 05:06 PM
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Like used in a house? Seen it used on TV? I have it done in a house but was not sure about holding 150 psi. I believe you all. Though I have seen a PVC shop last more than 15 years, not arguing for it, just a observation. It was in the roof cross beams in a Truck repair ship.. I worked there for 3 years. It was done by the owner I am sure.
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Old 08-04-2011, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaG
Though I have seen a PVC shop last more than 15 years

Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaG
I have it done in a house but was not sure about holding 150 psi


All that 15 years means is that it is far more likely to rupture now due to age! Make no mistake about it, PVC can and does rupture and it has caused some serious injuries!

If you are saying you are not sure about soldered Copper pipe holding 150 PSI I know of some 1/2" that is holding over 1700 PSI hydraulic pressure, DON'T use it for that however because just because those lines have held up under that pressure does not make it safe. If you were referring to PVC at 150 PSI then that is safe for water but NOT any kind of compressed gas! The pressure rating on PVC is what misleads people into thinking it is safe when it most certainly is not, 150 PSI fluid pressure is a hell of a lot different that 150 PSI air pressure. The difference is since fluids do not compress a failure will result simply in a leak (house plumbing does leak sometimes, think about it) but a compressed gas such as air will explode violently due to the expanding gases and it will carry with it razor sharp shards from the fractured pipe.
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Old 08-04-2011, 05:53 PM
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No I was asking copper. I was not sure the pressure it would work with. I worked for T.I. and we used stainless and even stainless within stainless with a nitrogen in the outer pipe..... Some bad stuff that would catch fire or explode if it came into contact with air....Acids and deindorsed water, hydrofluoric acid.... Bad Stuff. special hoses and Teflon fittings. No copper there.
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Old 08-04-2011, 06:12 PM
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Well sure Copper is not permitted for several things, for example it can be extremely dangerous for Acetylene line but all we are dealing with here is just plain compressed air from shop compressors, for that Copper is an excellent choice. As far as handling the pressure that is of no concern at all with properly soldered joints and the pipe itself will withstand waaaay more pressure than any sane air system will have on it.
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Old 08-04-2011, 06:46 PM
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1/2" type L annealed copper when sweated with 95/5 solder has a pressure rating of approx. 400 psi.

Brazing drastically reduces it to approx. 100 psi

I doubt anyone on this board is going to braze fittings for an airline . Brazing is used a lot for med gas lines or clinical grade (lab) as lines. it is both expensive and time consuming.

95/5 and Oatey #5 is the way to go.

PVC explodes from the oil in the air destroying the cross linking of the polymers. Unless you buy PVC that is specifically rated for air DONT use it for air.

It is a game of Russian Roulette, you can get away with it for a while, but many have been maimed or killed using it. Its your life you are playing with being cheap.

OLYMPIA -- The Department of Labor and Industries warned today that plastic polyvinyl chloride (PVC) pipe cannot be used in compressed air piping systems without the risk of explosion.

When PVC piping explodes, plastic shrapnel pieces are thrown in all directions.

"We're seeing more incidents of explosive failure, and we're citing more employers for using PVC air system piping," said Paul Merrill, senior safety inspector in L&I's Spokane office.

"It's probably just a matter of time before someone gets seriously injured in one of these explosions unless everyone pays more attention to the manufacturer's warnings," Merrill said.
Last year, a section of PVC pipe being used for compressed air exploded 27 feet above a warehouse floor. A fragment of the pipe flew 60 feet and embedded itself in a roll of paper. Fortunately, nobody was in the area at the time.
A PVC pipe explosion in a new plant in Selah broke an employee's nose and cut his face.

PVC piping buried 3 feet underground at a Yakima manufacturing plant exploded, opening up a crater approximately 4 feet deep by 3 feet across.

Only one type of plastic pipe has been approved for use with compressed air. That pipe, Acrylonitrile-Butadiene-Styrene (ABS), is marked on the pipe as approved for compressed air supply.

By law, employers must protect their workers by avoiding the use of unapproved PVC pipe in such systems. Existing compressed air systems which use PVC piping must be completely enclosed, buried or adequately guarded according to specifications approved by a professional consulting engineer.

NOTICE TO EMPLOYERS: If you have questions about the suitability of a material for air system piping, call Labor and Industries at the number listed above for a free consultation.

NOTICE TO EMPLOYEES: If you suspect that a pressurized PVC piping hazard exists, bring it to the attention of your employer. If you do not obtain satisfactory results, you may file a confidential complaint with the Department of Labor and Industries. Complaints are investigated promptly.


THE INDUSTRIAL COMMISSION OF ARIZONA
DIVISION OF OCCUPATIONAL SAFETY & HEALTH
P.O. BOX 19070
PHOENIX, ARIZONA 80005-9070

IF you have your heart set on using plastic piping for lord knows why, the only safe material to use is a SPECIALTY abs product. Hang on to your wallet its going to cost a lot more than copper,and won't dissipate the heat nearly as well, but you will have your plastic line.

http://www.aetnaplastics.com/product...usPipingSystem
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Old 08-04-2011, 08:43 PM
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About a year ago I piped my shop, I used 1/2" "L" copper, 50/50 solder, now get this, lead-tinning flux.
Had about 20ft. of 3/8" soft copper that didn't have a job so I put it between the compresser pump and the tank. It looks like it don't belong but it does cool the air.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-2011, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4chuck
About a year ago I piped my shop, I used 1/2" "L" copper, 50/50 solder, now get this, lead-tinning flux.
Had about 20ft. of 3/8" soft copper that didn't have a job so I put it between the compresser pump and the tank. It looks like it don't belong but it does cool the air.
50/50 sweat joints in all sizes up to 1" are rated for 150 psi

50% tin / 50% lead. It is the soft lead that lowers the psi rating.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2011, 11:35 AM
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Ouch Ogre - why the hate?

A friend of mine was going to use PVC for his shop and pointed out his forum to me to get my opinion. I'm self-taught from the school of hard knocks about air systems, having made all the mistakes already so I thought Id pass some info along.
As a lot of people have stated general use construction PVC is dangerous, there might be some special types that Im not familiar with but if you bought it a Home Depot its not going to work. Do some research on the stuff and youll find out that the strength of the pipe is greatly affected but the temperature too; ever laid pipe out in the sun or an area where its hot? You can tie it up like a pretzel in a few minutes. How about the cold? Even a small blow can shatter it. Now if your shop has air/heat and always stays at a nice 72 then pressure shouldnt be an issue and youd just have to worry about the other issues with it people have mentioned.
Iron pipe worked fine for a bit but was a PITA (Pain In The ***) to install, having to cut and thread all the pieces and then the rust issue after that
Copper was good, I used type L for my shop because type M was very thin and type K was too expensive. The install for me was a lot easier than Iron had been sweating pipe is easier than threading.
Aluminum was the best Ive used so far, quick and easy to install and a lot cheaper than copper. You can get it at the place I mentioned in my prior post or several others that are easy to find; they just helped me out with a lot of information and had a great price so I thought Id recommend them
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2011, 11:51 AM
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Aluminum should have excellent cooling characteristics too so it should work really well for removing water from the air.
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Old 08-12-2011, 12:25 PM
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Yep It works great for eliminating water from my system; Ive have a slight slope in the pipe coming directly out of the compressor for about 20 ft. so the condensation runs back to the main drain almost immediately. I run dual manifolds at all my drops that have small drains built in to them; I just checked them today for the first time this summer and there was zero water in any of them. The main drain has a lot but thats what its supposed to do keep it away from my tools and projects.
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Old 08-02-2012, 07:01 PM
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I'm surprised that pex piping isn't talked about more , Its used a lot now in home garages , according to the internet . I've been searching the pex air lines now for a while , before I put them in my garage . It seems like a 50/50 deal , some love it and some hate it . Its cheap enough and certainly easy enough to install . While it plastic , it no PVC . Its a lot stronger than PVC too. The only real complaint I can see it doesn't cool the air enough . Lets here the good and bad
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